Peter yes poll tax was a disaster, and I know that a huge number hate her, but those are almost all those that were in the closed shops benefiting whilst the country was going down like the titanic, as it is today.
I could go and research tax rates, but dont have time, I suggest ou go search tax rates in the 1970,s and comare to today and its not hard to see why business was dieing and the ordinary man outside of the closed shop was so happy with what Thatcher did.
if you are saying that because of the closed shop in the 70s was the problem and tax rates i can remember when the top tax rate was at least 80p in the pound and those that paid it did not complain because they were earning the money to pay it nowadays they have just got gredier and want the lower paid to cough up more for example like when labour took away thex10 p tax band and as for closed shops there is no more a closed shop than the civil servants union they dont like the thought of reforms because of the cushy jobs they all have and their left wing union masters will continue to make us believe they are so hard worked it is about time there was a cull of civil servants town hall execs
Austerity, yes, but with a proper growth plan in mind (like Marshall or Obama), and a reduction in VAT to kickstart that, and maybe some form of bank nationalisation of the High Street variety, to encourage lending to starving small businesses - why not? These are desperate times - it might encourage a few mergers of the more stable enterprises? especially, if a number are in imminent danger of going to the wall? I know this sounds like heresy from a Tory, but does anyone else have a better idea right now?
David, there will be no recovery without bank lending , so that is where the answer lies. Voluntarily or involuntarily the banks have to start lending to busineses.
Fifer, in the 70,s when tax was 80% nobody complained because nobody paid it. They all fled or went offshore. And no new business dared set foot in the UK with business taxes the highest in the world and unions holding companies to ransom.
I don't know if you saw BBC 1 Question Time last Thursday when Theo Paphitis of (Dragons Den). If you have never heard about him he is a very wealthy businessman/entrepreneur.
You can watch & listen to his comments on BBC iPlayer, to save you watching the hour long show, the parts he talks is 29.47 minutes into the program then in particular 48 mins into the program where he makes reference to the stupidity of cutting the top rate tax by 5p ........
Here is a man who knows exactly how to run business and giving Cameron free advice and what he needs to do to run the country.
I heard Deborah Meaden another businesswoman/entrepreneur from Dragons Den on Question Time some weeks ago and agreed with everything she said.
It's just a pity David Cameron, Tony Blair etc etc would listen to people like Deborah Meaden and Theo Paphitis or better still how to we attract people like this into politics to run our country.
These people are Real Leaders.
I hope you can take the time to listen to what Theo Paphitis had to say, and look forward to your comments.
Peter the 5p tax is such a piffling amount of money I dont know why it causes so much problems.
It is worth 1 billion a year to the revenue , out of 1 trillion. They could save 100 times that figure by screwing down the prices on the private sector.
I cant remember his name but the ex -chairman of ICI was commissioned by the tories when they came to power to advise on how to cut the deficit. He reckoned that most of the target cuts could be done without pain because all the private sector outsourcing by the governemnt is done at such high prices. Civil servants dont have the business sense to screw down prices and just let private companies take the piss.
So you are correct, even when they commission an outsider from business to advise and give a painless solution it gets ignored.
Did you watch the comments from Theo Paphitis on question time?
" Peter the 5p tax is such a piffling amount of money I dont know why it causes so much problems."
This is exactly what Theo Paphitis was say it was pointless the government cut the top rate tax by 5p and he just didn't understand why they did, because all the did was to give ammunition to others.
You said........... " I dont know why it causes so much problems."
I thought that it would be fairly self evident why it causes so much problems, you said you came from a poor background, try thinking about what you felt about the Union's and the affect it had on your living standards then think about the poor people who are struggling today as you once did, then think about a government forcing austerity measures on the poor and at the same time increasing the wealth for the top people, the poor have also to accept that they have to tighten their belts and government are giving free handouts to India, Pakistan, China and Africa.........
In my humble opinion it's a bitter enough pill to take real cuts in living standards in the poorest paid in society while they hear we can afford to borrow more, pay interest on said borrowed money and hear how the wealthy get a tax break and the government can ignore the legalised Tax Avoidance schemes of the Rich.
Peter, it doesnt make any difference ! When Thatcher slashed income taxes in 1979 income tax revenue went UP.
Its a vote winner, Labour rattle the tax the rich drum and the poor get excited, the Tories rattle the cut taxes drum and the rich get excited.
Keynes showed that it all goes back to the governemnt. If you tax 40% the other 60% is spent and it all goes back to the governemnt.
All you do by raising taxes for the rich is incentify tax evasion and drive money offshore and that DOESNT come back.
We both seem to be running around biting each others arse, while we agree on things.
As I said in the other post on a very similar topic.......
Your right it may not matter what the tax rate is set at, but it's not about taxing the rich more or less.....
It's about a society that has an Open, Balanced and "Fairness" for all.
What the government need to do is be just that open balanced and fair.
If the government want to cut taxes then let them do just that, it is the injustice or the perception of injustice by the working classes hear about the rich not paying what is expected off them, while they have to pay their taxes.
It's the government that is causing the problem with talking about coming down on the rich and closing tax Loopholes to force the rich to pay their taxes. While doing nothing so it looks like the government are openly leaving tax loopholes open for the rich to "Exploit".
The government needs to be open and reduce taxes to the rich then it doesn't come over as......
No. Thats shooting yourself in the foot.
The government needs to change purchase taxes if it really wants to help the poor and tax the rich.
Essentials zero VAT
Imported luxury goods, 25% vat = 5% tax rise for the rich.
In truth Peter ,aside from being a vote winner to rattle the class sabre on incone tax, to make thoe changes I suggest would be anti-global market.
It would stir up a storm on protectionism. You could probably cut vat on basics but to increase it on imported luxury goods rather than all goods would be seen as protectionism.
The global market is all very well, but firstly as a result our industry has been decimated and when only 22% of GDP is from manufacturing something must be done.
Secondly the worlds biggest player China doesnt play by the rules. It doesnt trade its currency on the markets, and fixes the rate artificially low which encourages exports and impoverishes its own people.
If China doesnt want to play fair why should we ?
I am with Peter on the subject of Maggie Thatcher. In my opinion she was an evil woman who had she been born a couple of hundred years ago would have been burnt at the stake. It was she who encouraged the me me society, look after number 1. She is the reason there is such a shortage of social housing because she sold off, through local councils property that belonged to the tax payer. Interest
rates rose to 15% under her and many people had their home repossessed. I had two small childen at the time and one income and we were lucky enough to keep our home but had to go without other things in order to do that. I know that the unions had become too militant and powerful but she would have strived to crush them regardless. As Peter says people seem to forget that it is the people on the shop floor who make the profit for business and they should therefore see some of those profits. Left to their own devices the majority of employers take their employees for granted and take every opportunity to squease them dry. Our forefathers were the ones who suffered abject poverty at the hands of greedy employers and they fought hard to improve the lot of the workers and here we are today seeing workers rights being eroded on a daily basis. We are being told to tighten our belts and to expect things to be difficult for many years to come. However, it is okay for Banks and Big Business to continue to cream off profits into their own pockets whilst expecting others to take pay cuts in order protect those profits. It has been said there was no democracy in the 1970's well tell me please where is the
democracy today? We are kidding ourselves if we believe we live in a Democracy. Why do our MPs have time to follow other careers whilst supposedly governing the Country, sitting back and fiddling whilst Rome burns!
Hatred of anyone can cloud real truth. And is a foul emotion that needs to be avoided.
Maggie thatcher like many leaders did some good did some bad...I dont think she did any more than others...
but the fact is that the UK is now a second rate country, run badly, with too many nimbys able to destroy good business and good ideas just because they dont like it...
banks are a part of our world and they have to survive, they made a mistake...they are human, this is the way of the world..its not the fact that we make mistakes that is important, its how we resolve them and move forward.
I do think the banks have not learned a very good lesson on this and need to help small business more...however they just see small business as big risks now and are very wary...can not blame them to be honest
Paul, you use the word hatred. My posting was born from fact. Mrs Thatcher in her wisdom sold off the utilities and water companies that are now in the hands of foreigners leaving us at their mercy, the railways that we are still subsidising and anything else she could lay her hands on. She destroyed the manufacturing industry of this Country and brought about the decline of decent tradesmen, who were once the best in the world and highly sought after. She may well have done some good but off the top of my head I cannot think of anything. You say the Banks made "a" mistake. Well I'm sorry but I don't consider using every possible means of extracting money from customers a "a mistake". It was and still is the mission of Bank's and other financial institutions to "rip people off" and they were the dominant players in the financial catastrophe, through sheer greed. I have no difficulty in businesses making an "honest" profit but both you and I know that Bank's are far from honest and continue to deliberately mislead customers and others. The Libor scandal and PPI are proof of that.
Resentment (also called ranklement or bitterness) is the experience of a negative emotion (anger or hatred, for instance) felt as a result of a real or imagined wrong done.
There is nothing wrong in feeling "Hatred" if a person wrongs you, attacks you or your loved one this is a natural feeling it is how one reacts to their feeling of Hate that can be dangerous.
What Oracle has said about Maggie Thatcher (Old Crone) is indeed fact, she & Tory party sold anything & everything, this has had and still is having a huge affect on peoples lives.
If Thatcher could have sold her Granny to the highest bidder she would have but instead she sold the British public down the river.
Her actions cause great resentment, anger and hatred towards her "Poll Tax" which brought down the "Poll Tax" the "Hatred" that was generated then brought about change in policy and the "Poll Tax" was gone....... This is one example where "Hatred" had a positive affect.
The Arab Spring again born out of peoples "Hatred" for their "Dictators" again a positive outcome from "Hatred".
The time is coming when here in the UK real "Hatred" is on the rise due to the cuts (its irrelevant what any of us think about the rights or wrongs about the cuts) and people will rise up and riots & civil disobedience will follow.
Government can only turn a blind eye to peoples frustration before it boils over into anger & hatred then riots happen and policy is eventually changed to quell the unrest.
So far from Hatred clouding real truth, I say Hatred can bring about Real Change.
We have seen it in Greece and now in Spain and the Hatred will spread like a wildfire and its coming to a street near you & I sooner rather than later.
And all such a pointless exercise, if only someone had bothered to listen to my totally logical suggestion of adapting and adopting the Hadrian solution on a global basis, all this misery could have been averted. Trouble is all our leaders appear devoid of vision...