Tory Bribe for votes

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
16 messages Options
Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Tory Bribe for votes

So the Tories will give a carer one whole year off work to care for a disabled person.

The Tories thinks this will attract Labour voter's,....... Wrong!!!

It may attract those Labour voters with enough savings or larger enough incomes with a partner out working as well because get this .......

It will be one whole year off work to care for disabled WITHOUT PAY
You won't apply for out off work benefit!!!

I can see Theresa May's JAM's (just about managing) will in no way be able to take advantage to care for their disabled folks.
The people the Tories have forced into ZERO HOURS CONTRACTS will definitely not be able to afford a year out of work as many weeks they earn enough to pay the rent and scrap through in hope they get work the next day or the day after......

Basically Tories are firing this at those who can afford time out without pay.

Surely any person CARING for a disabled person deserves a wage as they take a huge purden  and costs of the NHS.

I really care about getting out the EU and Theresa May had my vote but no matter how much I want the kinda Brexit she is promising but this is enough to swing my loyalties towards a truly caring man Jeremy Corbyn and say what you like about his stance on trident and Brexit......

He is a Genuine, Caring for those at the bottom of the food chain

Theresa May is showing her true self a hard nosed uncaring Tories only out to bribe the votes of those selfish enough to look at their own needs at the expense of those at the bottom and society as a whole and the type of country we all live in.

The Tories say.....

It's a choice between Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn.

Well today Theresa you have made it about what type of country and society we want to live in which leave us with the choice......

Tories, selfish, uncaring that still only look after those with the money to easily get by...... She is ignoring the JAM's and all below them as unworthy of a decent standard of living.

Theresa May you are ......

Losing my Brexit vote

Peter C
The Oracle The Oracle
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

Peter, We have agreed on many things over the years and you know that at heart I am not a Tory and I disagree with many of their policies. However, I feel so strongly on our escape from the clutches of an even more undemocratic form of politics than our own I believe I have to vote Tory to have any hope of a reasonable Brexit. We cannot go on paying benefits to immigrants and supposed refugees from Europe and many other regions of the world. The boats containing many thousands of African nationals have already taken to the waters this year with the intention of reaching our shores. Many of these people like the Eastern Europeans are content to live in squalor here as they do at home and are claiming benefits which they send home to their own Countries. They are in fact dragging down the standards of living of the poorer in our society. We already send millions to these countries through overseas aid and through the European Union which it seems never reaches the very projects or people it is meant to help.
The saying goes “No pain no gain” and as I said in another post, with a successful Brexit there will be many opportunities to right the wrongs of our Country. However with Jeremy Corbyn in charge of negotiations we run the risk of an open door policy for at least another 5 years and god knows how much more money taken from us and either wasted by Europe or removed from this Country through benefit payments. We may never get another chance on that front.
Jeremy Corbyn is quoting ridiculous amounts of money to be spent and really has little idea of where it is actually going to come from.  The world is changing but sadly despite his good intentions Jeremy is living in the past.
 



Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

Oracle,

Yes I agree there will be plenty time to right the ills that the Tories bestow upon the JAM's, Disabled and the working poor.

I also agree with the fact that the Tories are "the" only party of choice for the Brexit this country needs.

I just had to have my say to these complete and arrogant Tories who will use the result of this general election to further their own agenda.

This announcement about giving a carer the right to take a year off work to care for a disabled person which will be unpaid and you won't be classed as unemployed so won't qualify for out of work benefits, this is once again only for the benefit of their own people (Tory Voters) those who have sufficient incomes to take the time out....

What about the millions who are already doing care while in work but can't afford to take unpaid leave.

This is what sickens me about the Tories.
They make announcements that has absolutely zero relevance to aid those who do the most and earn the least.

I just listened to the Tory on The Daily Politics where he said.......

Jeremy Corbyn and his Marxists ideas with BANKRUPT this country!!!!!

These F**ked up Tories are suffering a really severe bout of Amnesia!!

As I recall it was Capitalism that bankrupt the entire world's economy!!

Blood is at boiling point about these force feed absolute Bollocks Lies and cover-up about Capitalism and how it not only failed this country but every country around the world have been effected.

Jeremy Corbyn is being targeted by every newspaper, TV interviewers I am sick of him being tarred Marxist and IRA sympisiser, he may not be perfect in all his views but the Tories are along with the media in general are Brainwashing the public that is was Socialism​/Marxists that caused the banking crisis.

Where in this country it has been the Capitalist system that every government since Maggie Thatcher (old crone) sold off every thing and privatised it all so as those with money could make themselves wealthier.

Rant over .........  

My apologies

I just don't get why Jeremy Corbyn and Labour have not seen that a hard Brexit is what was and is needed, he/labour are gifting the Tories a landslide and they will see and use it as a mark that the public are behind them with austerity and hammering the less well off and giving tax breaks to the wealthiest when in truth they are gain UKIP supporter's and Labour voters who like you and I want out the EU.

Let's hope the Tories deliver a really good deal on Brexit and in 2022 we have a new invigorate Labour party ready to right the wrongs and rebalance the inequality the Tories are forcing through right now
Peter C
The Oracle The Oracle
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

We can only hope Peter and also hope that whoever takes over as leader of the Labour party together with his/hers ministers/shadow ministers can add up
because the figures given today in the Labour Manifesto just don't tally. They are obviously looking to borrow Billions to balance the finances!
John Kelly John Kelly
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

The Labour Manifesto is more of a bucket list and an unachievable one at that. It proposes penalising the wealth creators, totally ignoring the fact that this so called rich elite, the top 20% of earners in the UK actually contribute more tax than the residual percentage of all other taxpayers Proportionally, so have Labour investigated the possibie ramifications of increased taxation of executives and senior management and it's disincentive values on this cadre of higher earners? Will this tactic result in an exodus of the wealth creators to other countries such as occurred in France when Francois Holland increased their tax liability to 70%?
Will increasing corporation tax reduce corporate investment in the UK?

I could continue this review ad infinitum, but it suffices to say that this declaration of intent is nothing more than a sop to the blinkered socialist mind frame and as well as being unachievable it is safe forabour to make this imprudent claims because they know they will never again be trusted to govern this country because British people remember the chaos of Labour rule and understand that socialism is truly the politics of envy.


Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

John K

In truth there was little or no exodus off French super rich.

When Francois Hollande was bidding to oust conservative rival Nicolas Sarkozy in 2012, his most famous promise to left-wing voters was a 75-percent super-tax on the country's millionaires.

As Emmanuel Macron put it at the time.....

"It would prompt big earners in the business, sporting and artistic world to leave France and deter new foreign talent from coming in, turning the country into a European version of Cuba, but without the sun".

Did the tax rate scare investment into France.....

The first thing investors complain about is the fiscal and social instability.

They didn't complain about the amount of taxes they pay, just that it is always changing.

There were also fears that the tax would spur France's own high earners to flee to foreign shores.

Remember David Cameron  provocatively declare that he would “roll out the red carpet” to those leaving France for sunnier financial climes.

However, like most millionaires were able to just "find a solution" with their company to avoid paying the tax.

Hollande's super tax didn’t exactly cause the mass exodus of the rich and the famous that doomsdayers predicted.

Hollande's super tax was a symbolic measure but in the end it was misjudged and poorly prepared.
It was badly thought through and was basically an attempt by Hollande to rally his support on the left of the party.

He wanted to show that it was not just the middle classes who would pay for austerity through tax rises.

Perhaps Jeremy Corbyn is trying to emulate Hollande's tactics to gain the support from the left of the Labour party.
Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

In reply to this post by John Kelly
John K

You bemoan about Labour harping back to the bad old days such as the winter of discontent etc etc

Yet in France we had very similar situation of the super rich......

Threats to dump and leave France if they didn't get their own way to keep taxes low for themselves.

We even had France’s top football clubs threatened to Go on Strike as league chiefs claimed the tax would make it impossible for France to attract players of the likes of PSG's Zlatan Ibrahimovic and former Monaco striker Radamel Falcao, of whom earn millions.

John, what's the difference between the super rich/earner's or the working poor hold the country to ransom​ by removing their labour.

I can tell you......

The poor work hard to scrap by making ends meet day to day.

The super rich do next to no work and live the life of king's.

Let's not get your usual, that myself and folk like me are all leftists and Marxists who are full of Envy.

Even many Tories can see inequality is getting way out of hand and that the super rich hang on to the money which eliminates the "Trickle Down" never happened.

This is not good for the economy as the money sits stagnating in a bank.

John, is it ok for the super rich to hold countries to ransom by threatening to up and leave or for super rich clubs threaten to Go on Strike!!?
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

Peter C

Good morning Peter, I believe in equality for all, in relation to personal taxation, I think that everybody should pay the same percentage of their gross income in income tax. Where that uniform level of taxation falls is irrelevant, what does need to change is the tax free allowance, which currently sits at £11,500 p.a. for all PAYE employees.

Ex,1
A worker on the UK average wage of £28,000 p.a.
Gross income: £28,000
- 12%NI.             3,360
- taxAllowance  11,500
-Tax@20%.         2,628
Residual.             10,512
+Tax Allowance  11,500
Total.                    22,012
Monthly I come £1834.33

Ex,2
A worker earning £80,000 p.a.

Gross income.   £80,000
- 12%NI                9,600
-tax Allowance    11,500
-Tax @40%.        23,560
Residual.             35,340
+ Tax Allowance 11,500
Total.                   46,840
Monthly income £3,903.33

As you can see while the higher paid worker has a gross salary nearly 3.5 times that of the average earner after taxes that differential drops sharply to a fraction over twice the monthly income of the average earner.
This calculation does not take account of any Government subsidies for child allowance, working tax credits, council tax rebates for the average earner or private pension and commuting costs incurred by the higher earner.

Labours russh to penalise the higher earner conveniently bypasses the income of elected MP's out really is the politik of envy.
Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

Good day to you John, Just to point out you had nothing to say about the facts I posted in regards to French rich elites leaving France which never happened!!! Now to take your figures you quote for tax and net pay....... You got the £28,000 income more or less bang on, however you £80,000 is hugely wrong by roughly £8,000 net pay more than you quoted. For future tax and net income..... Let me offer you a URL where you can have tax and deductions done correctly. https://www.incometaxcalculator.org.uk/ingr=80000&time=1&yr=2018&category=Administrative Here are screenshots​ of the tax calculator for £80,000. You said...... "Government subsidies for child allowance, working tax credits, council tax rebates for the average earner or private pension and commuting costs incurred by the higher earner." Neither will be able to get any of the above on £80,000 or £28,000 net income. As for commuting costs incurred by the higher earner. Last I knew travel cost are the same for all citizens be they billionaires or on Job Seekers Allowance and every income in between.
Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

In reply to this post by John Kelly
John K

My apologies your tax calculation was based on the proposed 40%

However, the rest of my post stands
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

This post was updated on .
Peter C

You have made a basic error, NI deductions are taken from the Gross income before general taxation and are calculated at 12% of the gross total, the residual total is then taxed minus the tax free allowance.

Back to the drawing board young Peter!

P.S.
People who commute to major conurbation's Like London, Birmingham, etc are normally earning far in excess of the average national wage so it would be the exception to the rule that someone earning 28,000 or less would be able to afford season ticket prices which from Northampton to Euston station certainly amount to over £5000 p.a. now.
Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

Yes, quite so John

I still await your response the the French elite exodus that never really manifested.
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes



France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns
Hollande’s measure was meant to force wealthiest to help dig country out of economic crisis, but was accused of being
François Hollande’s unpopular tax changes that imposed a 75% rate on earnings above €1m (£780,000) will quietly disappear into the history books from Thursday.

The French socialist president announced plans for the controversial measure during his 2012 election campaign as a means of forcing the wealthiest to help dig the country out of economic crisis.

Although supported by the left, the reform sparked accusations of an anti-business agenda. After the “supertax” was announced in September 2012 the government was accused of shooting itself in the foot by risking an exodus of high-profile personalities. Business leaders expressed fears that investors would pull out of France.


France’s richest man, Bernard Arnault, the chief executive of luxury group LVMH, took out Belgian nationality, and the actor Gérard Depardieu also moved across the border to Belgium before obtaining Russian citizenship.

High-earning French footballers threatened strike action, while league bosses warned they would no longer be able to attract world class players.

A majority of French taxpayers disapproved of the 75% rate, although polls showed that six out of 10 voters were in favour of raising income taxes on the wealthy.

Despite the backlash Hollande clung to the principle of the supertax even after it was dismissed by the country’s highest court, fearing a revolt by his leftwing allies. The tax was subsequently adjusted to a 50% rate payable by companies after the constitutional council ruling in December 2012.


The final nail in the coffin came from the former investment banker who is now France’s economy minister, Emmanuel Macron. A former economic adviser to Hollande, Macron described the supertax as “Cuba without the sun”.

With the party leftwingers having marched out of government in the days and months following the appointment of the openly pro-business Manuel Valls as prime minister last March, it was only a matter of time before the tax was dropped. The prime minister confirmed it would not be renewed in 2015 during a visit to London in October, where he addressed business leaders.

“The reform clearly damaged France’s reputation and competitiveness,” said Jorg Stegemann, the head of the executive search firm Kennedy Executive. “It clearly has become harder to attract international senior managers to come to France than it was.
Tax lawyer Jean-Philippe Delsol, author on a book on tax exiles called Why I Am Going To Leave France, said last month many high earners had agreed with their companies that salaries would be limited during the two years the tax rate applied, and they would “come to an arrangement afterwards”.

Finance ministry studies showed that despite all the publicity, the sums obtained from the supertax were meagre, standing at €260m in 2013 and €160m in 2014, and affecting 1,000 staff in 470 companies. Over the same period, the budget deficit soared to €84.7bn.

The decision to drop the tax is a personal blow for Hollande and only one of a number of government U-turns since he was elected, fuelling criticism that he is indecisive and lacking presidential authority

   
 
John Kelly John Kelly
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes


Stockholm Town Hall iStock_000001040695XSmall.jpg

By Nima Sanandaji and Robert Gidehag

Sweden is a nation with extraordinary high tax rates. The average worker not only pays 30 percent of her or his income in visible taxes, but, additionally, close to 30 percent in hidden taxes. The defenders of the punishing tax burden argue that it is needed to maintain Sweden’s generous welfare system. While this claim may seem reasonable on its surface, a deeper look suggests that it is based on flawed analysis.

Some level of taxation is, of course, required to fund the public sector. At the same time, a high level of taxation does not necessarily translate into an equally high level of welfare:

Taxes discourage work and encourage tax avoidance. There is strong evidence that Sweden’s highest rate of individual and capital taxation actually reduces public revenue. For this reason, some taxes, such as the wealth tax, have recently been reduced. The result is estimated to be a net increase in tax revenues.

When Swedish municipalities receive increased funding from the state, the money is used to expand the local bureaucracy, a government survey has shown, instead of going to educators and health care workers.

Municipalities provide much of the welfare in Sweden. The Swedish Association of Local Authorities and Regions have shown in a study that funding for Swedish municipalities grew dramatically between 1980 and 2005. Despite this, the general public consensus is that the quality of welfare has declined during the same period.

Welfare provisions don’t necessarily correspond with taxation levels. A 2005 research paper examines the efficiency of the public sector in 23 industrialized countries. The researchers found that Sweden only reaches a mediocre 12th place when it comes to how much the public sector provides in terms of welfare services. When the level of welfare is related to the level of taxation, Sweden falls to the last position in the index.

There is a high variation in how effectively public money is spent within Sweden. The Swedish Taxpayers Association has, in a number of surveys, shown that identical welfare services such as care of the elderly, can vary in cost quite dramatically across Sweden.

There are two important reasons why the average Swedish worker pays a large portion of her or his income in taxes, without necessarily receiving an equally high level of welfare.

First, much of the money is spent on administrative costs at various levels of government. Although a small nation, Sweden has over a hundred public authorities. Vast sums are spent on political projects which fall outside the frames of general welfare. It is, for instance, not unusual for Swedish municipalities to fund bowling alleys, swimming pools, or camping places.

Second, a large fraction of the population is living on benefits rather than working, due to the combination of high taxes, a rigid labour market and generous welfare benefits. Even before the economic crisis hit, for example, almost one out of five children in Sweden’s third largest city, Malmö, were living in a family supported by social security. Sweden has 105 local districts where the majority of the population lives off of various public benefits, and does not work. This unintended consequence of the welfare state has taken a heavy toll on public services, since an increasing share of tax revenue must be diverted to fund welfare payments, rather than social services.

Many are immigrant dense neighborhoods; others are situated in the northern part of Sweden, where many cities with stagnating economies have suddenly experienced a boom in the fraction of the population who cannot work due to disability.

The famous Swedish welfare state is to a large degree a notion of the past. Many feel that its glory days occurred during the late 1950s and early 1960s, when Sweden successfully combined welfare policies with an expanding economy. At that time, however, Swedish taxes were 27 percent of the GDP, compared to 47 percent today. The golden days of Swedish welfare did not coincide with the high tax regime we know today.

How could Sweden fund a prospering welfare system with relatively low taxes in the past? As the researcher Erik Moberg documents in a book for the Ratio Institute, public money was spent much differently back then. The share of public revenues spent on health care and education at the end of the 1950s was greater than it is today.

And, compared to the 1950s, close to three times as much of public revenues are now spent on public bureaucracy. Four times as much is spent on welfare payments and social insurance. As the level of taxation has increased, so has the share of taxes going to public bureaucracy and various government handouts.

The historical comparison with the 1950s and 1960s is worth thinking about. It shows that a high quality of welfare can be achieved with a much lower tax level than we have today. If politicians slim down public bureaucracy and cut wasteful spending, resources can be opened up for increasing welfare and reducing taxes at the same time. If the system rewards work to a greater degree than it does living off the state, fewer will be dependent on the public for their daily living, again opening up tax revenues for better use.

Sweden has long been a small homogeneous country with a high degree of economic equality. Strong norms related to work and responsibility made it possible to enact an effective welfare system early on. With time, however, welfare dependence has reduced the very norms that formed the foundation of Swedish welfare, and wasteful spending has increased.

Many important social outcomes that the welfare state aims to address, and that Sweden is famous for, such as a low crime rate, have increased in recent decades, concurrent with the expansion of the welfare state. Even income inequality has increased in Sweden compared to, for example, the 1980s, despite similar or higher public expenditure.

Swedish decision makers are doing their best to reduce public spending and lower taxes. The reforms have been highly successful so far. As taxes have decreased from 57 percent of GDP in 1989 to 47 percent of GDP in 2009, the incentives to work have improved, with Swedish growth rates benefiting. The convergence of lower taxes and lower public spending is likely to continue. After all, experience has made it quite apparent for many Swedes that extraordinary high taxes are not the key to qualitative welfare services and a well functioning society.

Nima Sanandaji is president of think tank Captus and a fellow at the Swedish Taxpayers Association. Robert Gidehag is president of the Swedish Taxpayers Association.


















Peter. C Peter. C
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

In reply to this post by John Kelly
John K

The bottom line here is a simple question to you since you don't want to go back to Union's taking us back to the bad old days of the winter of discontent.

Which is all very well and good no one's wants to be held to ransom by Union's.

However, is it not exactly the same when the rich hold the country to ransom by threatening to quite any country to keep their taxes as low as possible and keep vast sums of their wealth tucked up in bank accounts.
Which does nothing to help the economy.

Why should those with vast amount of wealth hold us to ransom??

Especially when they wouldn't miss the money and as I said previously.......

The wealthy are more concerned with tax rates constantly changing rather than the %

As far as Gérard Depardieu he denied he applied for these citizenships.

The 75% tax rate as with all government's they leave loopholes so the rich can and do avoid paying and France were no different.
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Tory Bribe for votes

Peter C

Yes I agree if there is a loophole that can be used to limit an individual  or a corporation's exposure to what  they consider to be excessive taxation​ then human nature dictates that most will do so if it can be achieved through legal means. So it is down to the Government's lawyers to frame legislation so that it cannot happen..
However Peter, most people earning £80,000 p.a. would struggle to afford the financial and legal advice that would allow them to avoid paying the full tax that they owe.