Peter, very well put. This is war, plain and simple now. All mosques who will not tow the line, closed down. Shariah Law outlawed in UK. Families that resist, deported wholesale from whence they originally came. No fanfare. Just do it and fast!
Would it be possible to deport radicalised Moslems that were born in the UK? Is it legally possible to remove British passports of those born in Britain? I don't know the answers to these questions. Anyone that is not born in the UK and is a radicalised could be deported, to their place of birth. Anyone British returning from ISIS having been a fighter should automatically be placed in custody and put through the legal system as a known terrorist.
I do think Moslem councils and all Sharia legal activities [or law] should be outlawed - we already have a legal system.
I doubt that we could police all mosques but I think Imams need to be accountable for the behaviour their worshippers and be responsible for reporting any dubious activities in their communities. If they do not do so and a terrorist attends their mosque they are culpable and should be made account for their lack of response and not providing information to the security services. Certain consequences need to be enforced - the possible suspension of worship or similar. It is difficult to stop innocent people from going about their business but the community need to present some ideas - and if their is fear of repercussions, these need weeding out too! There is possibly fear in the Moslem community - there may be bullying and violence threatened from potential terrorists and this needs stamping to be irradicated.
The Moslem community needs to be more active in rooting out all the radicalism in their midst - they have to be pro-active and engaged in society. Integration appears to have failed and so all our communities whether they be Moslem, Christian, Jewish etc should come together and work out a better way to move forward and stamp out radical Islam. This has to be a requirement not a request!
I was concerned that the Manchester terrorist has been given so much publicity - this seems to me to be exactly what these people want. Also I am sorry that the police actually shot the 3 people involved in this latest attack - they have got what they wanted - martyrdom. I would like to have seen them in court, humiliated and put in prison where they would have had to suffer from the other inmates. These people should be separated and left to suffer from prison. Prisons allow Moslems to worship but this should be the only time they can ever meet together. Moslem prisoners should always be in the main prison and not on a section 43 which allows them far too much protection.
I do, however, accept that during the latest horrendous incident the police may have had no choice and had to kill these dangerous men, so I want to make it crystal clear that I am not blaming the officers at all - they have a difficult and dangerous job. I am horrified by the attack and can only offer my sincere condolences to all those who lost friends or family, and to all those injured and hope they make a good recovery.
These lunatics won't stop me going up to London or travelling anywhere for that matter. We cannot allow these nutters to alter our way of life or to destroy our usual tolerant and civilised society.
An email recived today.An Insightful Observation of Tolerance
Jiggs McDonald, NHL Hall of Fame broadcaster speaking in Ontario , says: "I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Toronto . I think it should be the goal of every Canadian to be tolerant regardless of their religious beliefs. Thus the mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance." That is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque; thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque. We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, "The Turban Cowboy," and the other, a topless bar, would be called "You Mecca Me Hot." "Next door should be a butchers shop that specializes in pork, and adjacent to that an open-pit barbecue pork restaurant, called "Iraq of Ribs." "Across the street there could be a lingerie store called "Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret," with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods, and on the other side a liquor store called 'Morehammered'."
"All of this would encourage Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us.
"Yes, we should promote tolerance, and you can do your part by passing this on. And if you are not laughing or smiling at this point . . . “It is either past your bedtime, or its midnight at the oasis and time to put your camel to bed."
I reiterate my earlier remark "all mosques that do not tow the government line" I was not arguing for all mosques to be closed; but I remain strongly opposed to Sharia Law which I regard as both archaic, discriminatory, and above all, divisive.
I have read your response to my previous post and you have given me I a great deal to think about. I agree that no-one can be responsible for another's actions and I think what you have said is what I would agree with. Deporting Imam's if they are not British citizens and who allow any hint of radicalisation or hate speech should be the case - they are not welcome here and I often wonder how they managed to get into the country in the first place. If they are British citizens then they should have to relinquish their mosque and be tried for crimes against humanity or whatever fits their behaviour - I think they should be aware and accountable for their flock.
You do have a point about the perpetrators having to appear in court if they survive an attack. I am in two minds about that - I agree it would give them further publicity. If they are shot, however, they stupidly believe that they will go to heaven etc. which encourages more of them to do these horrible things. I am not sure I have the answer as your argument makes sense.
I am not at all sure about bullying in the Moslem communities - it was just a thought. Bullying seems very prevalent in our society at best. Many people have been bullied and one of the best ways to deal with is to stand up to it. I guess it is dependent on who is the bully and how it is conducted. Whatever the case the Moslem community has a duty to report their knowledge of radicalisation and the planning of possible attacks. It is unforgivable if they do not, bullying or not. If they are living in fear they should let it be known, and not shirk from their duty to the people of this country - simple as that!
I do not fear the Moslem community at all - bombs and fear of attack did not stop me living and working in London during the IRA campaign. I will always try to understand other cultures, religions and creeds - in the case of ISIS I cannot - it is as unacceptable as Nazism as far as I am concerned. I would deport any non-British jihadist. I would strip any jihadi, who has fought with ISIS, of their passport - they can go back to your ISIS mates, whether this be men or women. The young girls that went to join the ISIS fighters should never be allowed back. I could never get my head around the girls from the East End going to join ISIS without their parents knowledge - it doesn't seem likely. I'm am not sure what we do with British born jihadists - that may prove more difficult. If we could send them all of to Saudi that would be great but I suspect Saudi would not accept them, in spite of the Saudi support, both financial and religious, of ISIS. They should be given long prison sentences and separated from their moslem brothers in prison - never be allowed to communicate. The families of jihadis should also be made to come forward and be examined very closely, maybe with a threat of expulsion - that may be too extreme for me but again it is something to consider.
I don't believe my solutions would change much but it would be a start. We do need stricter entry conditions to this country.
Whatever happens and if these attacks continue I think everyone will become harsher and harsher in response. I would like to be a tolerant, caring human being but it is difficult to remain so when innocent people are knifed, blown up and run down in our cities. I don't have the answers, but thanks for your thoughts - as I said, you really have given me much to think about!