The vote on Scotland is becoming interesting

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Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: The vote on Scotland is becoming interesting

Now there's an interesting scenario.
Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Perer C

It was designed as a wind up, surely you could see that!
Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Peter C

Apologies are not, and should not be needed between friends!
Peter. C Peter. C
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Northumbrian Northumbrian
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I would like to see the back of a lot of Scottish MPs
As for quoting Rabbie Burns , what a load of babbling nonscence , from a poet who's been dead for hundreds of years
I live near the border on the English side , my husband and I sat one night and pondered jokingly what independence could bring :
Will we need a new design for the union flag
Will scottish  workers in England need a visa , will they have to carry a passport and produce it a a check point in fact will they have to have new passports as they will no longer be British
As they will be a new nation will the EU accept them
Will foreign companies be willing to continue to trade with a country which is new and untried and will foreign owned bussiness in Scotland now find they don't have a foot in Europe


Northumbrian Northumbrian
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Re: The vote on Scotland is becoming interesting

More questions
Will the North-East news now be separate from Scotland
What will Berwick choose to be Scotish or English , I suspect they would choose to be where they would be better off
can we have a new Hadrians type wall this time a little higher up the country
Will we see a new borders police force or maybe a Reiver revival
I'm sure I'll think of more
Just joking , I have some very nice Scotish friends who don't appear to be anti -English at all , I wonder if they will stay or go back 'up the road'
Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Peter C

Alex Salmond and his SNP cronies are seeking Independence for Scotland for one reason only, it is not out of Scottish patriotism, it is born out of hatred for and jealousy of all things English, so intense is that animosity to the Anglo/Saxon culture that it ignores the potential economic disaster that independence may bring to the Scottish people.
The union between the throne of Scotland and that of England placed a Scottish King on the throne of a united Brittania, it was the decision of that Scottish monarch to abandon the throne of Scone for the Palace of Westminster.
Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Peter C,

No Scotland cannot survive as an independent nation in the way that the SNP are telling the Scottish people, for the following reason’s

1,
The SNP state that once independent ,Scotland would introduce free childcare but have not published any analysed costing’s for this policy which would have to be paid for by Scottish taxpayers.
2,
The SNP state that once independent, Scotland would introduce an increased state pension, again they not published any analysed costing’s for this policy which would have to be paid for by Scottish taxpayers.
3,
The SNP state that once independent, Scotland would re-privatise the Post Office, you’ve guessed it they not published any analysed costing’s for this policy which would have to be paid for by Scottish taxpayers.
The SNP state that Scotland before separation from the UK would be automatically be fast tracked into the EU as a full member state and would have the option not to accept the Euro as its currency but would retain the £ sterling as part of a currency union with the rest of the UK. The Welsh first minister has already stated that Wales would oppose such a move.

However Herman Van Rompuy the First minister of the European Council said on Saturday the 14th of December this year ”that if a region of an existing member state became independent , it would be required to go through the same full accession process to join the EU as any other applicant."

He also appeared to reject Mr Salmond’s claim that negotiations could start while Scotland was still part of the UK and be completed before independence, saying that countries seeking accession to the European Union must be internationally recognised as  a sovereign “European state” to be able to make an application.
Mr Rompuy’s intervention is the most damaging yet for the First Minister as the European Council consists of the heads of state or government of all the EU’s existing 28 members.
They would have the final say on if, when and how a separate Scotland would be granted membership. Any decision on these issues and whether to grant an opt-out from the euro must be unanimous.

That unanimity is not guaranteed, Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish prime minister, has said a Scotland separated from the UK would be considered a third party state without credentials and would be kicked out of the EU.
Jose Manuel Barroso, the European Commission president, has also said new states have to apply from scratch in the same way as Croatia, Bugaria and Romania.

4,
There is also the question of how the SNP intend to make good the £12 billion black hole in the Scottish economy that will result immediately at the point of signing the document of separation when the Barnett formula is scrapped and the tens of £billions of indebtedness of the Scottish banks that would have to be settled before separation, failure to do this would leave the majority of Scottish mortgagees and commercial loan debtors in hock to the UK Government.

5, 
The Scottish population of a little over 5 million have the same ageing dynamics as the rest of the UK so the prospect of funding all this from taxation is risible, and the prospect of North Sea Oil & Gas funding it all when its longevity as a source of future wealth has again been downgraded recently by almost 30%.

Scotland cannot survive as an independent state in the way that the SNP propaganda suggests, it may stumble along for a while but a new nation without a credit record in its own right will struggle to obtain affordable funding from the money markets.
Peter. C Peter. C
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Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: The vote on Scotland is becoming interesting

Peter C

Scaremongering and conning! that rather describes the threat by Alex Salmond back in July when he threatened to close the North Sea if an Independent Scotland was refused entry to the EU by Brussels.

Would an independent Scotland have its own Navy?

Alex Salmond is egotistically obsessed with securing himself a place in history, he cares not for the welfare of the Scottish people or the destiny of Scotland, as with all deluded despots he convinces those around him to go along with his warped dream that for everyone else turns into a nightmare.

This scenario has happened before when a man with an ego greater than his intellect and physical ability brought ruin down on the Scottish people for decades, simply because they they allowed thenselves to buy into his fantacy.

Realism is the key to survival, the UK is stronger together than its individual parts If we are divided we all fall, then who profits from our stupidity?

Brussels?
Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: The vote on Scotland is becoming interesting

Peter C

You said "You do not like the direction the EU is dragging the UK and want to break away from the EU, Scotland is in the same situation with Westminster and want to break away from being governed by Westminster"

Peter the difference between these two scenario's is simply that there are clear and obvious advantages that would accrue to the UK outside of the EU both financial and economic, since the nations outgoings would dramatically reduce and our ability to set up trade agreements with any nation without the fiscal restrictions imposed by the EU would provide more flexible for UK industry

For Scotland to leave the Union the Scottish Government must first obtain the necessary funding to settle outstanding debts for Banking bailouts given to the Bank of Scotland(HBoS) and RBS, it must also secure funding to replace the Barnett formula let alone the funds needed to implement the planned increases in child care and pensions which are pledges made in the recent white paper.

There is also the question of how Scotland would fund the basic infrastructure of society like Revenue and Customs, Benefits agencies, Education at both standard and advanced levels, Policing, Fire and Ambulance services, The Military, National Security, Immigration.

As a small independent nation what credit rating would scotland be able to secure from the international money markets? Financial analysts seem agreed that to fund all of the above the Scottish taxpayer would see the basic rate of tax rise between 12.5 & 15% initially and by more as the residual Oil & Gas production falls away year on year.

The SNP are deliberately misleading the Scottish people, although a recent poll of 1000 well educated16-17 year old sixth formers in Ayeshire resulted in a 60% rejection of a vote for Scottish independence, however these were politicall aware young people so perhaps the less well educated more easily lead young voters would bring in a different result fueled by emotion and bias.

In answer to the points raised by yourself in previous posts, I believe I have adequately answered those points within my comments, it is up to you to recognise that fact and reflect upon the those points and decide if they are valid or false based on the accuracy of my research on a raft of other issues we have debated on this forum.
David A David A
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The Union of 1707 was an arranged marriage for better or worse sanctioned by the Stuarts. A lot of water and inter-marriage has taken place since, such that half my family have strands of England, Ireland and Wales embedded in their genes!

I don't like this current administration any more than the next person. As far as I am concerned, they are a bunch of traitors who have sacrificed their electorate on the Holy altar of Europe, and do not deserve to regard themselves as British.

Salmond has stirred up a wave of nationalistic fervour as a result for Scotland, on the basis of heroic myth. Wallace may have been popular, but he too divided Scotland for very much the same reasons. Edward I was a ruthless king, but unlike his wayward son, believed in the rule of Law. When British Justice is found wanting, there is a tendency for rebellion, and such was the lot of my ancestors who sided with Bruce the Younger. When I look at the inability of our current Home Secretary to recognise the basic right of people like Chris Tappin to be tried in a British Court of Law for alleged misdemeanours of dubious substance allegedly committed in the USA, or her inability to uphold British Justice over the European Judiciary, then I despair for Britain and her future as a United Kingdom, and I can now well envisage a scenario where Scotland could secede from Great Britain. That would be a very sad day for both England and Scotland, and both national entities would be inviting widespread depression as a result. This is one of the reasons, in my view, we should, with the Queen's earlier initiative and Germany's very recent undertaking to act as Ireland's broker, we should be convincing Ireland of the merits of a Union of Great Britain and Ireland. Remember those true words of Orwell, in Unity lies Strength. The alternative is disaster and hardship - as I said earlier, what we need in Britain, more than anything is a benevolent dictator, who recognises the paramount needs of the British people, and is prepared to show some iron to both the USA and Europe, and will weed out the corruption which is rife within the Councils and Boroughs of our Sovereign land. Sending Atos packing would just be a start. John's detailed reply shows the early picture only of what Scotland would face if she seceded tomorrow. It says nothing about what would lie in store further down the line, but it would be  inevitable that the auld rivalries would resurface with land entitlement etc - the highlanders v. lowlanders again - result would be mayhem and misery, and probably a lot of emigration! I truly fear for Britain now, with the incompetents who lead us.
David A
Peter. C Peter. C
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