The Epitome of Scaremongering

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The Oracle The Oracle
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The Epitome of Scaremongering

Have just watched the most sickening sight of “Sir” John Major and Tony Blair pandering to one another in their latest attempt at blatant scaremongering over the common border between Northern Ireland and Irish Republic if we vote to leave the EU. They are despicable. In addition it is  typical of all politicians to make life as complicated as possible for everybody. I see no reason whatsoever why the border between the two countries cannot remain open to workers from both sides should we vote to leave, with a work visa system, if that is deemed as necessary.  After all what is the EU going to do about all the foreign people, mainly Spanish who work in Gibraltar even though they don’t live there and vice versa. Are they all going to become unemployed?  Tony Blair should keep his big mouth shut as far as I’m concerned, He probably still has hopes of a big job in Europe at some time! Wouldn’t trust him further than I could throw him. As for “Sir” John Major, we all know how trustworthy he is!!! I wonder what his motive is for suddenly appearing out of the woodwork.
Mary S Mary S
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

Oracle,
I, too, saw those two on a podium together and it is sickening. I also found Sadiq Khan and Cameron together sickening. After all Cameron's revolting support of Goldsmiths remarks during the Mayoral contest, Khan was able to tolerate standing with him on the same podium. I do not think the Labour Party should stand on any podiums with Tories - the Libdems lost so much support by going into coalition with the Tories. I don't care if they agree about Remaining they should not have any truck with the Tories - they should emphasise their differences not their common ground - I find the whole thing utterly nauseating. Blair should creep off to the nearest sewer where he belongs - he will squirm out of any responsibility for the Iraq war and continues to say that it was necessary taking no responsibility for the consequences.  Unfortunately he will never be prosecuted as a war criminal as parliament, at the time, voted to go to war which makes them all culpable.  Both these people have so much to answer for, Major for all the losses caused by entering the exchange mechanism, the Maarsticht treaty,  and if it hadn't been for Brown, Blair would have had us in the Euro, and then of course the illegal war in Iraq. They should both shut up and keep their noses out, I have no desire to hear anything they have to say - they have gone and should stay gone! I certainly do not value anything they say or wish to hear it either - I have already made up my mind about the referendum and their stupid scare tactics [which are likely to be lies] will not change it!
David A David A
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

About the only decent thing I can give Brown credit for, but bear in mind it was Maggie who said Non! in the first place, against a lot of pressure, including the USA lamely attempting to blackmail her over the Falklands!
David A
Mary S Mary S
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

Hi David,
What did Thatcher say no to? She signed the Lisbon Treaty and didn't offer a referendum and she claimed to be a eurosceptic.  Also I think Brown also had the courage to bail out the banks for good or bad.  It saved the economy at the time and the Labour government had a growing economy before the Tories took over and starting shrinking the economy with massive cuts in public services and we all know what the consequences have been. Let's face it the economy is still extremely fragile now and the hope for investment has not materialised in spite of all the printed money sloshing around in the banks!
It was very useful for Thatcher to have a war with Argentina - she was deeply unpopular at the time and it may well have given her another term. I can't agree with you, David. I know you are a great admirer of her but I despise her and blame a lot of our financial problems on her with Blair and Brown following the same policy. The city and banks need proper regulation and reigning in and the free market aconomy has failed with appalling inequality.
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

Thatcher never signed the Lisbon treaty, it was David Cameron almost twenty years after Thatcher left office.
David A David A
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In reply to this post by Mary S
She refused to give up the pound for any European currency - whatever it was at the time - may have been the Ecu...Brown's action doubled the Sovereign debt of the UK literally overnight - putting up GB plc as surety without an endorsement by either parliament or the electorate! Imagine what his fate would have been under Elizabeth I !!! and while you are singing his and Blair's and the Clinton's, and the Kinnocks too? praises, just remember the cosy little family earners they all have on the side. I am truly amazed you find you can support this man. All Brown did was postpone the inevitable, which I regret will be all the more painful for our children thanks to his shenanigans - his preoccupation with himself was always paramount, which became abundantly clear when he forgot to switch off his mic. before his fall from grace. You only need to ask his labour closest workers in Parliament to find that they all, to a man and woman, found him an insufferable dictator!
David A
Mary S Mary S
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

In reply to this post by John Kelly
Sorry John - I stand corrected -she did sign the Single European Act in spite of eurosceptism.
Mary S Mary S
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

In reply to this post by David A
I don't think I mentioned the Kinnocks or the Clintons ! I don't happen to agree with you and I don't need chiding or a lesson from you. We see things very differently and I accept we have different view points - I have no idea what Elizabeth 1 would do given it was a very different state of affairs and can't be compared. It appears your memory of Elizabethan history is very different from mine! I imagine you are saying 'off with his head'! Thank goodness we live in different times!!! You are a Tory and I am not, so we differ in our opinions and seem to experience life very differently.
Brown also refused to give up the pound in spite of Blair wanting to take on the Euro. I did also say that Brown continued with Thatcherite policies which was a massive mistake - the free market has failed and I believe that her policies were the reason for the economic crash, the Labour government should have introduced controls on the greed and rapacious banks - that was a mistake!
I also stand corrected about the Lisbon treaty - Thatcher signed the Single European act - eurosceptic or not.
David A David A
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

Elizabeth was pretty good when it came to toleration, compared with her predecessors and successors! You only have to look at what some of the wits, like Sir Francis Bacon, got away with under her protection - but yes, you are right, it would have been off with all of their heads! - a practice, which I am sad to say, appears to be alive and thriving today. No, I wouldn't want that for Gordon, or Hillary, or the Kinnocks, but I'm not sure about Blair! - personally I'd settle for permanent exile on a desert island for all of them, with the possible exception of Hillary, who despite her family machinations has show signs in her campaign (thanks to Bernie), of acceptance that she is not the perfect candidate by any means! 'Tis true, I have Tory leanings, but I resolutely refuse to have an Aristotelian label stuck on me "Tory"! Rather, I bow to the inifinite wisdom of Lao Tsu - the truth is the great river that reaches the sea, and who knows, we might both be experiencing that river as I write, because I reckon you have a rare capacity to see that same river too!
David A
Mary S Mary S
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering



Sent from my iPad

On 9 Jun 2016, at 23:03, David A [via Have Your Say] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Elizabeth was pretty good when it came to toleration, compared with her predecessors and successors! You only have to look at what some of the wits, like Sir Francis Bacon, got away with under her protection - but yes, you are right, it would have been off with all of their heads! - a practice, which I am sad to say, appears to be alive and thriving today. No, I wouldn't want that for Gordon, or Hillary, or the Kinnocks, but I'm not sure about Blair! - personally I'd settle for permanent exile on a desert island for all of them, with the possible exception of Hillary, who despite her family machinations has show signs in her campaign (thanks to Bernie), of acceptance that she is not the perfect candidate by any means! 'Tis true, I have Tory leanings, but I resolutely refuse to have an Aristotelian label stuck on me "Tory"! Rather, I bow to the inifinite wisdom of Lao Tsu - the truth is the great river that reaches the sea, and who knows, we might both be experiencing that river as I write, because I reckon you have a rare capacity to see that same river too!
David A



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Mary S Mary S
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

Hi David,
A lovely post - I have to agree with you about Blair - I am not a supporter of capital punishment [I am sure you not expect me to be judging from my comments] but I have to admit 'off with his head' has at times, when I feel so disgusted and angry with this man, that execution has seemed justifiable, however I really can't countenance that extreme so the desert island together with the Kinnocks [ who were a dreadful disappointment to me as have so many labour politicans] we could add Trump no doubt it would have to be enormous to accommodate his ego, sounds good to me.
Beheading, as you say, is alive today - and sadly this country continues to support it by trading with the countries that use it.
I hope you are right about Hillary - I really do - she has to beat Trump but the choice seems poor for the US electorate - she is still firmly part of the establishment. I can't take to her but she is the lesser of two evils.
I love your reference to Lao Tsu - I agree - we do often agree and luckily can disagree without rancour and that is how it should be.
Thank you for your post.
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

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Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

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The Oracle The Oracle
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

With all due respect to the contributors to this thread but I have to ask the question what has Donald Trump for President got to do with my original question regarding the common borders between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and that between Gibraltar and Spain in terms of the EU referendum. We seem to have strayed way off the subject of scaremongering unless of course suggesting Donald Trump as president is also scaremongering! To me it is, all I can say to that is God help us all and I'm not a believer!
David A David A
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

In reply to this post by The Oracle
Sorry Oracle,

I picked up the thread further down the line. I suppose, those two plonkers are quietly ignoring the distinct possibility that Ireland will have to follow the UK if we vote Brexit because of their heavy dependency on trade with the UK. I note the advice to the Taioseach by the Irish Press is not to get involved in the debate and pray that the Remain camp win the day on 23rd June! If it's Brexit, I argue, Ireland will have little choice but to leave too, and probably before the Italians in October, in which case it will be begging bowls all round, and there will be no sense whatever in border controls whilst they either decide to bravely launch their Punt again or vote to embrace Sterling. In today's climate, my bet would be on the latter!
David A
Mary S Mary S
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Re: The Epitome of Scaremongering

In reply to this post by The Oracle
I, too, apologise, Oracle - I am guilty of deviating from your original comments about scaremongering. Interestingly I was watching Newsnight tonight and Tim Montgomerie who I often dismiss as he is from the Tory right, said that Tony Blair is not helping the Remain campaign - perhaps he will scare people into voting leave.
I do agree that the Remainers continue to ramp up the scare tactics - I really don't think it is working [hopefully!] I agreed with your first post and again apologise for straying so badly from your post!