SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

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Peter. C Peter. C
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SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

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David A David A
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

Well said, Peter; and my opinion of Mrs May, has gone up considerably since she took over from Cameron. She has good leadership qualities, admits her mistakes, but holds on to her vision. We need more like her. Sturgeon by contrast imagines 2 + 2 makes 5!!!!

God help Scotland if she EVER gets her way!

Scotland needs the UK and the UK needs Scotland! You only need to witness the Falkirk Wheel to realise that! Those words have ironic historical significance too! Since Falkirk, Scotland has turned full circle with pride!
David A
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

The SNP have mismanaged the Scottish economy to such an extent that even though they received around £1,600 more per capita through the Barnett Formula it has managed to spend £127 per capita for every £100 it received from Westminster, even useless Labour could not manage that.
Scotland must actually be bankrupt.
Mary S Mary S
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

I, too, wonder about the Scottish economy. Also I have read and seen a lot of reports that another referendum isn't particularly popular and if it goes badly wrong Sturgeon's career would be damaged - not a bad thing from my point of view - I am not at all keen on her.  The Scots must realise that their economy is in bad shape and leaving the union, Brexit or no Brexit,  they may well need us, more than we need them.  Also if they do vote to leave and lose the Barnet formula they will lose the pound sterling and may well have the Euro as their currency and agree to be part of Shengen - our borders will have to be well-protected as if they do get European workers migrating to Scotland it will be a good way of getting into England. That's assuming they are accepted for membership of the EU which is not guaranteed.
The whole idea of another Scottish referendum seems fraught with hurdles and seems like a political risk for Sturgeon.
I personally wouldn't like to see Scotland leave the union but if they really feel that it would be better to leave then perhaps the electorate of the UK should be able to vote as they are currently in the union? T
David A David A
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

I don't want us to go, Mary! Heaven forbid - just posted this on Sunday Times Digital!

Chris G 1 hour ago
As a gift to the EU when we leave, could we give them Scotland.
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Mr D Akenhead 37 minutes ago
@Chris G ...don't be nasty! we're joined at the hip! Get used to it!
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Chris G 35 minutes ago
@Mr D Akenhead @Chris G
They voted to stay in the EU.
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Mr D Akenhead 28 minutes ago
@Chris G @Mr D Akenhead history! past tense! guilty as charged, but that was then, and that was more a protest against the undemocratic behaviour of Whitehall prior to the last Referendum which had many Scots like myself seething! I would not encourage my clan to vote that way under Mrs May!
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Mr D Akenhead 6 minutes ago
@Chris G @Mr D Akenhead P.S. I had no idea how close we would get with that vote in Clydeside and North Lanark, seat of my ancestors with Bruce! or I might have reconsidered my appeal on the eve of the vote on Canadian television. I wanted to convey a message which clearly resonated with the people of Glasgow!
David A
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

David A,

The SNP as a political entity are totally unsuited for Government, they are fiscally imprudent in their management of the Scottish economy.
The national deficit of Scotland stands at £15 billion ( 9% of GDP), public spending out of control( for every £100 received by the SNP from Westminster it spends £127)
The SNP desire to leave the UK and join the EU beggars the question; what price independence?
Can Scotland survive outside of the UK?
If Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU there is a major cost factor that needs to be examined, first there is the loss of Scotlands Barnett Formula funding from central Government currently worth £566 billion per year.
EU membership is based on a percentage of GDP, so if we compare an independent Scotland with the EU costs of the Irish Republic, which currently sit at 1.31% of GDP then EU membership could cost Scotland £2.17 billion per annum.
How can the 1.9 million working people of Scotland fund such an enormous outgoing, when at the same time funding the 900,000 + under 16 year olds and the almost 1,000,000 pensioners and the unemployed and the disabled, how can if fund it's military, police, border force, customs and excise, inland revenue, universities, and all the rest of infrastructure investment?

Mary S Mary S
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

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It warmed my heart, David, to hear that you don't want Scotland to leave the Union.  We so often get so many different views from Scotland, that the Scots are wanting independance. It doesn't make sense to me - we are part of the United Kingdom and hopefully will remain so.  I agree that the referendum result was very much about the people being very disenchanted with Whitehall and all those MP's that are totally out of touch with the people and reality.  Also immigration is a huge factor and that is not to say that we are racist just fearful seeing our country and economy change so dramatically. The poverty arising from austerity causing the destruction of our public services which look as if they will never recover. There are so many factors to many to list and it is not that we are zenophobes or racist but distrust Brussels and our own government, just for starters!  Sturgeon has used the referendum outcome as a lever to get another Scottish referendum- just a political and cynical move and possibly a selfish one that may well come back and bite her in the backside!
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

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Mary S Mary S
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

Hi Peter,
I do apologise of course you are correct I neglected to mention the Irish border and the likelihood of immigration into the UK.  I was focussing on Scotland and neglected to mention your obvious point!
I agree that Labour is falling into the abyss and really needs to get itself organised and start challenging the Tories effectively - as yet it has failed to so. It warms my heart to know that the Scots dislike the Tories - me too with massive loathing!
The SNP does act with passion and as a united front and Sturgeon is a formidable foe but I would hate to see Scotland go.
At the moment I suspect that our current shambles of a government have no idea what to do and how to achieve Brexit successfully and to the benefit of all.  As someone who voted to leave, I do fear for the future with or without Scotland. The thought of a Tory administration for the foreseeable future fills me with dread - they are so concerned with their own self enrichment and that of their wealthy friends. They will sell off everything, of which not much is left, and privatise all public services and given our experience of privatisation eg energy, rail and all forms of travel, education and the NHS which are both steadily being privatised by stealth, we will have a great deal to regret from their time in power and may lose Scotland to boot!
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

In reply to this post by Peter. C
Hi Peter C,

As you will have noticed I have been busy with my calculator again, I have computed that in the event of Scotland leaving the UK but not yet a member of the EU, the cost to individual taxpayers over and above their normal PAYE deductions would if current services are to be maintained, amount to a tax liability for each of the 1.9 million workers paying tax of an additional £29,680.42 per annum. Of course this would not include the cost of repairing the 9% black hole in Scotlands GDP.
Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

Peter C

The sentiments expressed by English people have been deliberately provoked by the irrational nature of the demands made by Sturgeon & Co.

As to whether or not you accept my calculations, read them again, they are based on the Scottish Government in an independent scenario maintains the level of public spending currently funded by Westminster.

Best wishes
John K
Peter. C Peter. C
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Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

Peter C

Then by final comments in the previous post where you state your desire for equality of status for all four constituent countries in the union, would that include equality in every area?
Areas such as public spending per head of the population in each country?
Peter. C Peter. C
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

Equality between communities is always subject to economies of scale.
If the inhabitants of Scotland who number just one fifth of the number of inhabitants of England, are to have equal power to effect the lives of the Majority that is five times it size then such an arrangement flies in the face of democracy.
Federalism is simply another way of divide and rule, whereby a minority group controls the masses.
The only way a state can operate is with one Government , where every citizen has an equal voice through the medium of the ballot box. The only way we can achieve this in the UK is by the dissolution of the devolved system of governmental powers.
David A David A
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

I'm with you guys - been having a bit of fun on Times Digital this morning!

Mr D Akenhead 52 minutes ago
I wish some would wake up to the fact that we now now have a leader with whom we can all be proud. Mrs May cares passionately about our future and keeping our Kingdom United! and she sees the wisdom of making London again the Mecca it once was as the trading capital of the world, with (taking a leaf out of the Irish experience) attractive conditions for businesses. EU seems to turn a blind eye to Ireland, for some reason, or maybe it's because of all those German and French interests there! Who knows, if they (the EU) have to eat humble pie and woo Mrs May with generous severance terms after all, Ireland too might be persuaded by the lady's potential. Personally, I would like that! a united Ireland as part of a greater United Kingdom, would, for me and my ancestors, be a dream come true! In Unity lies Strength! to quote the prophet Orwell!
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Keith Mottram 38 minutes ago
Bloody hell its only 11:30 and you're already drunk!
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Mr D Akenhead 37 minutes ago
@Keith Mottram haven't touched a drop of Talisker yet!
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Mr D Akenhead 22 minutes ago
@Keith Mottram @Keith Mottram p.s. you got your first recommend from me! Here as a virtual exile in Canada, I have to put up with Mr Trudeau who is raising business rates instead of lowering them like Trump! Our green Premier is discovering that many Canadian interests are now shifting to London too, not to mention the the Scandinavians, the Icelanders and the Scots, of course! Now I'll have that wee dram I promised mysel', cheers! and cheers to you, Mrs May!
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VeloGarcon 12 minutes ago
@Mr D Akenhead  If unity is so good, why are we leaving the EU?
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Mr D Akenhead 5 minutes ago
@VeloGarcon @Mr D Akenhead because we support free trade and not cosy cartels run by pigs in Brussels! Perhaps, you have heard of Napoleon, in Animal Farm?
David A
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: SNP & Indyref 2 ........Be Brave Theresa May

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Peter. C Peter. C
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