June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

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dave 1 dave 1
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

Hi Peter,I will be voting conservative.I would normally vote UKIP but I have to agree that if we wish to leave the EU then Tory is the only Party that will bring it about.I would have to be an idiot to vote Labour.He as already stated that he wants an open door policy.That is part of the reason that people voted for Brexit.He talks about reducing classroom sizes,which will only get larger still as more people come to live in this Country and have more children.The Labour Party are so out of touch with the people of this Country.As regards Lib Dems,the least said about them the better.
The Oracle The Oracle
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by Peter. C
Hi Peter, I was never a fan of Theresa May as Home Secretary, I thought her record was appalling. However, I realise that she was under the constraints of the EU which obviously made her job more difficult. In the run up to referendum she kept a very low profile because I suspect she was one of the few within the Tory party who
recognised the possibility of the outcome. In my opinion she has been very shrewd and patient, ready to take the opportunity that presented itself to become leader of the Party because she knew that David Cameron would have no option but to resign following his pathetic trip to Europe prior to the referendum.I voted against joining the "Common Market" back in the 70's and this is my only opportunity to  help get us out.  I have never voted Tory in my life but on this occasion I feel I have no option. I appreciate a General Election is normally about Home matters but the effects of our membership of the EU are so immense, the Country is being bled dry.
There will be many more opportunities to right the wrongs within our Country but this will be our/my only opportunity to help get us out and I intend to grab it with both hands.
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by David A
David

I believe you will get the Tory revival you are hoping for, as you know i am no Tory but i don't see or hear any movement back towards Labour up here in Scotland but i do know many are like myself who find themselves with no party offering the Brexit we seek apart from the Tories...... I can see the Tories likely to grab a half dozen to a dozen seat back from the SNP.

We know the SNP position of leaving rUK to then be subservient to Brussels in an Undemocratic EU.

Labour under Jeremy Corbyn are in my opinion keeping their power way to dry by not making clear their or his plans what a Labour Brexit will be........
Jeremy Corbyn has been quick to reject using the nuclear deterrent, which makes the UK more likely to come under attack from those who like ISIL believe we are weak.
It is all very well wanting a nuclear free world but to render yourself impotent in a very hostel world is not a good way to keep yourself safe from those who would attack you.

Yet when it comes to spelling out what Brexit is under Jeremy Corbyn/Labour he is keeping his powder dry, when i think he has more to gain by making us aware of what his Brexit is going to be that way he either gets people behind him or alienates voters even more, which will happen sooner or later so there is no real reason to hold off.

So to Jeremy Corbyn i say.......

Get Labour's Brexit plan out a.s.a.p, to delay is only pushing your voter's to look towards the Tories who are as far as i can see, are the only party offering the Brexit i want.
Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by dave 1
Dave 1

It makes sense that you will vote Tory on this occasion as i have said a UKIP vote is a wasted vote.
Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by The Oracle
Oracle

I do hope your thoughts on Theresa May are vindicated.

I am like you, my desire to leave the Undemocratic EU union have left me with no option as to vote Tory as i have little idea what Labour's​ position or direction of travel on leaving the EU.

I think Jeremy Corbyn is keeping his Brexit card's to close to his chest, he needs to get it out their a.s.a.p or risk losing valuable votes he must gain to stand the slightest chance to gain any movement towards Labour being electable.

I also agree that to lend my vote to the Tories on this occasion is my only option and i agree their will be a better time in the near future to right the wrongs the Tories have and continue to do wrong.

Since Theresa May has called this general election now in 2017 means it will be 2022 we face the next general election.
If she had waited untill 2020 we would be facing a further 5 years under Tory rule taking us to 2025.

It saddens me to say but it is looking better to lend a vote to the Tories on this one off occasion and hopefully the Labour party will regroup and get their act together by 2022, this earlier than expected general election buys the Labour part a couple of more years to come back stronger and ready to right the wrongs the Tories are doing, so unless Jeremy Corbyn and Labour comes up with a strong Brexit soon i can't see me voting Labour on this occasion as getting away from the EU is so so much more important at this time.

Peter C
Rookery Rookery
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by Peter. C
I too havent a clue who to vote for, for exactly the reasons you state.
The Oracle The Oracle
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by Peter. C
Jeremy Corbyn will do nothing about immigration. He is already saying that "all"
Europeans living here will be allowed to stay if Labour were to get into power. A typical rash political statement, with no thought as to the eventual conclusion to
such action. We cannot afford to keep paying benefits to low paid Eastern Europeans for children that are not here and when many of them are sending monies back to their own Countries. The comparisons made to British people living abroad in Europe are ridiculous. As I have said many times before, people go abroad to live for what they see as a better life and that includes Brits. I doubt there are many of them, if any who are able to claim benefits abroad. Many of them are in business or are retirees who spend money paid to them by our Government in their Country of choice. thus contributing to their economy. I do not object to honest hardworking Europeans wishing to live and work here who pay their dues like the rest of us. We have been bank rolling Europe for years and are one of the few who pay their debts.
Our public services can no longer cope with the ever increasing numbers of so called refugees coming via Europe because they do not abide by the rules.
Mary S Mary S
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

As I have said in all my previous posts - I will never vote Tory. We are going to leave the EU whoever is in power and that is what I and a majority voted for. I could never change from Labour to the right wing so readily especially given what appalling policies this government has already instigated.This election is not only about Brexit and I for one have not forgotten that fact. The recent report about free schools is another reason why I can't vote for May, HS2 is another, with France and Italy fighting over who will build it - no British company in sight. The NHS is being privatised in front of noses, Social Care is non-existent and the rich are thriving and the poor are getting poorer. I cannot see that Brexit will make a jot of difference to those issues - it will set us free but who will benefit most - not the majority, the wealthy. The Labour Party will take us out of Europe and protect the majority whereas May will stamp her feet and is likely to make sure her wealthy mates will gain. She is a poor negotiator - lacks the skill, as do dodgy Fox and witless Davies.  Another Tory government will be a disaster for the country and I find it unbelievable that previous Labour supporters can support such a rightwing Tory party - it defies belief. Perhaps you want another unnecessary rail link built by a foreign country, a privatised NHS, worse elderly care, education, the prison system, and this is just a few agencies, in the hands of the private sector. A new power station built by the chinese and all our utilities owned by foreigners with no control of prices.  Brexit will not change these issues but a Labour government can!
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

This post was updated on .
Labour if elected to Government would, raise income tax, for average and above average wage earners,
They would increase corporation tax which would reduce company profits, however it would for larger companies act as a disincentive to recruitment at worst it could cause unemployment to rise and insolvency in the very smallest of enterprises.
They would increase taxation on inherited wealth even for the less well off, in effect taxing money that incurred taxes when it was earned, was taxed when saved and then taxed again when handed down to the next generation.
Socialism is the politics of envy and is carried out by the least able to govern, and can only carry on by spending other people's money, that is until the money runs out as we saw in 2010.
Labour would also repeal the Trade Union Act which could return the UK to the chaos of the late 1960's early 1970's which virtually bankrupted this country. Incidentally do you remember the standard rate of income tax back then during the times of Harold Wilson and James Callaghan?

Corbyn has in the past supported the cause of the provisional Irish Republican Army and campaigned for the removal of British Army units from Northern Ireland, he has supported the cause of Hammas in Gaza, he supports the abolition of NATO and he has stated that he would not order a preemptive nuclear strike if the UK was under iminent threat of a nuclear attack against this country. It is the first duty of a prime Minister in the UK to protect the nation with all means at his disposal, if he cannot give such an assurance then it is clear that he is not fit for such a role.
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

John K

The Tory party are clearly going to start their assault on the elderly and their triple lock on pensions are coming to an end and they are also opening up the possibility of raising taxes.

So pots black kettle on what you suggest about the Labour party.

I cannot believe you are still trying to pin the Labour party with what happened in 2010 when it is was clearly the Banksters that were to blame, the economy was going along and doing well before the Banksters brought down every country and government around the world.

Let's keep it within the bounds of Reality please.

On repealing the trade union act......

I don't have a problem with that as most government's get elected with a very minority of the UK population and you don't see the Tories or labour for that matter saying...... You must get a set % turnout and then get the majority to vote in your favour to govern.....

Pots, black kettle again!!

Socialism is not politics of envy, it is the politics of "equality & fairness" and by equality i mean getting the Rich to contribute more to help the worker's that generate the wealth the rich have.
Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by John Kelly
John K

As for what you say about Jeremy Corbyn on IRA etc etc.......

All the British government's eventually talked to the IRA and put murder's in government, you know who they are!!

The same will happen with those we deem terrorist state's that being making deal's with ISIL leader's and Bashar al-Assad in Syria before an end to the wars come about.

Once again....... Pots black kettle!!
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

 It was disclosed in a Telegraph exposure that for seven years running, while the IRA “armed struggle” was at its height, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke at official republican commemorations to honour dead IRA terrorists, IRA “prisoners of war” and the active “soldiers of the IRA.”

Before you start making comments referring to pots, kettles and black take a good hard look in the mirror.

The official programme for the 1988 event, held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in the Netherlands, states that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Mr Corbyn used the event to attack the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the precursor of the peace process.
David A David A
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

John,

Labour is an embarrassment under this man. May has her shortcomings but she believes in our rights to self determination, and her heart is in the right place. She has my vote, if not for me, then for my children. Positive note, and flying the flag in my own quiet way, today I launched my new website this afternoon 3.30 p.m. Newfoundland time www.akenheadcrosswords.com  check it out, and if you like it, tell your friends! Meanwhile I'll pop outside to see if I can spot some icebergs!

Best to you all,

David
David A
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by John Kelly
John K

It cannot be denied what you state as fact, however, it is also true that the British government's sucked up to Martin McGuiness, even Ian Paisley sucked up to his arch enemy McGuiness...... So much so they were nicknamed the Chuckle Brothers!!!

But what were they chuckling about?

Their shared success at outwitting the British state.
Both though for opposite reasons had made their careers out of harassing Britain and both in their later years, had acquired money, power and status by doing so.

In the case of McGuinness and his gang, Britain greatly underplayed its hand.

Having militarily beaten the IRA, successive British governments could have marginalised them but instead they accepted them as authentic representatives of the Irish people who had to be included in any settlement.

The process for doing this systematically disadvantaged the moderates and bigged up the thugs.

Given the above facts what's the difference to the British government's who warmly welcomed McGuinness and on his death they pronounced him a "Peacemaker".

Martin McGuinness’s remarkable transformation from IRA commander to peacemaker that even Buckingham Palace announced yesterday that the Queen has decided to send a private letter of condolence to his widow.

So Westminster to the Royal family had to talk to him sooner or later.....

Jeremy Corbyn just saw the way to bring about peace sooner the Westminster and the establishment eventually got there, by not only talking to their enemy's but accepting him as their equal.
Peter C
Mary S Mary S
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by David A
David, Corbyn embarrassing, you are joking - he is a man who is hoping to introduce equality, a society where people have enough money on which of live. He wants the banks to begin to lend rather than horde money - he recognises the fact that the major banks are looking after themselves, keeping interest rates low to control the housing boom that has been engineered by the banks. Tory policy has ruined our economy and left it in shreds and you critisise a man who wants to change our society where capitalism has failed.
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

Mary sadly you are wrong!
The Banks conducted their business with out statutory controls, why? Because Gordon Brown removed the power of the Bank of England to police those practices, instead giving the B of E the power to set interest rates.
It was Labour that propped up Northern Rock instead of allowing it to go to the wall, which would have served as a warning to HBOS and RBS to put in place fiscal remedies which might have prevented the banking crash of 2007/8.
Instead Labour day on their hands and did nothing until it was too late, then they impoverishhed the British people by propping up the corrupt RBS operation and forcing the otherwise healthy LLoyds Bank to incorporate HBOS into their group and as a result damaging it's own financial status, from which it has never recovered.
It is notable that Marxist theory and socialist economics always spells chaos simply because an economy, like running a successful business requires competence, something sadly lacking among Labour MP's. Capitalism if properly controlled by enforcible regulatory powers is still the only workable system.
Marxist, Communist, Socialist systems always fail and always will because it depends on higher and higher taxation especially so for the job providers on who the people depend for their wages, if you drive away the job providers then inevitably you increase job loses.
David A David A
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by Mary S
He's brave, I'll grant you that, and like Hadrian he wishes to tear up the rule book BUT his great weakness, I fear, is that of Canute. You cannot resist the elements without bloody strife. History has taught us that. Hadrian's great strength, by contrast, was that he had a knack for unity. He saw how Trajan was executing Consuls like it was going out of style, and he knew his strength lay with two legions who would follow him to death! He knew too the value of chess, I submit. You have to Queen your pawn first! Sadly, Corbyn, for whatever his merits, lacks these skills. Hadrian, had to appease the citizens of Rome who were ready for bloody revolution, as well as appease the nobility; so in the latter case he ordered 2 weeks holiday to commemorate his reckless predecessor, who like Gordon Brown, chose to be profligate with the country's silver to the point of total bankruptcy, and in the former he instigated his famous line in the sand, burning all the public debt in the Agora (market place) and declaring all debts of Rome null and void. By what authority? By Caesar's decree, of course, who like his predecessor, was an undisputed God! Much like Donald Trump would like to believe himself to be today, I would suggest, and he too built a wall - and I bet you that's where his inspiration comes from - but Hadrian made a mistake there, as we all know today! Plus ca change! Plus c'est la meme chose! The trick is learning, Mary, I would humbly suggest!
David A
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by John Kelly
John K

You dropping out our debate on what you accuse Jeremy Corbyn of and my reply on the British government's all paying homage to Martin McGuinness when he passed and my point that British government's accepted him as their equals by giving him a seat in Westminster, even though he was directly or indirectly involved in the killings during the trouble's.

Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by John Kelly
John K

As you well know when labour deregulated the banks the Tory party were chanting .....

MORE! MORE! MORE!

NOT NEARLY ENOUGH!!

Keep it within the bounds of Reality please.

You are also well aware that it was Capitalism that has been tried and tested and FAILED society as a whole but feather the nests of the rich.

Capitalism has been tried and tested and has been proven and show it fails society.

Whereas socialism has never been fully tested so you can suggest it's a bad system of governing but it has never been shown to fail in the UK or America, sure you can point to Communist or Socialist country's like Russia, N.Korea but then they are ruled by dictatorship's.  Hardly a good comparison to use to say socialism is all bad.

Capitalism can never be controlled as it corrupts and the so-called trickle down has never worked for the working poor or society as a whole.

What has happened since the Tories "talked" about the........

"New form of Capitalism"

What has Theresa May done for her new term the JAM's...... (Just about managing).......

Theresa May has only paid lip service which always means talk the talk to Con people for their votes.....It's all rhetoric!!

What is the Tory plans to halt the march to privatising the NHS, again we hear the rhetoric from the Tories that the NHS is safer in Tories hands than Labour's, yet there is absolutely nothing to back this up.

The Tories see Labour support dwindling away and like to think labour are a spent power and on the back foot and they are peddling there Con to try get more Labour voter's.

If it were not for Brexit Theresa May and the Tory party would never have called this general election.

Theresa May, may get a bigger majority but this will not give her the right to sign of on any Brexit deal she gets with the EU........ She either gets the full backing of parliament or comes back to the People on a yes or no to accept the deal.
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: June 8th 2017....... General Election or Brexit referendum part II

In reply to this post by Peter. C
Peter C

McGuiness and Adams won their seats in the UK parliament after the provisionals had given up the armed struggle, even though they never used that privelidge.

Corbyn however held talks with terrorists during the killing days, he is a man who professes empathy with the ordinary British people, bit in reality his empathy has always been with the rebel causes and has always demonstrated a simmering antipathy with the UK in general his true political leaning is communism, an ideology that seeks to destroy democracy and impose huge government control over the lives of the individual.
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