Invalid referendum

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PM Hovenden PM Hovenden
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Invalid referendum

How duped we have been. We have have listened to the voices of  Brexit and now the reality is hitting hard I don't believe that it is moral for us to Exit on the basis of the fact that almost 50% of the country do not wish to leave Europe and many have been misled by the lies of  The brexit campaign
I believe the referendum to be invalid for a number of reasons
On the day London was besieged by a dramatic weather front. numerous voterswere unable to get home in time to go to the polls. many of them as we know it would've voted in favour of staying
2 we were told by Farage that £350 million a week would be put into the national health service. he told  us this only last week  on the very day when the results came He had the barefaced cheek to say that he had made a mistake I'm sorry that to me is just a blatant lie and therefore makes the referendum invalid because people are voting on a lie not on the truth
 The big difference between the Brexit campaign is that the brexfit campaign was fought on the basis of lies they dismissed as scaremongering.v however the reality is exactly as they remain campaign said and we see it happening all around us just two days in.I believe there should be A second referendum before we lose Scotland as well.
The huge  majority of MPs voted to stay in Europe they are the people who should make the decision we elected them to do just that the British public is unable to vote without the true knowledge of what was voting  for it to makes the referendum invalid
David A David A
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Re: Invalid referendum

Oh, ye of little faith! Thankfully the majority are not stupid either - they elected for Freedom from a Federal Europe. What a load of tosh about an invalid Referendum. People inevitably make mistakes, and Farage having the courage to admit them does not invalidate anything. On the contrary, it reinforces the old adage "to err is human, to forgive divine" I thought ALL the speeches, Boris, Farage, and including Cameron's, and even Sturgeon's were statesmanlike. You sound like a poor loser! Hopefully, Europe can see now, that we are NOT anti Europe, we are not Xenophobic either. We simply believe in our sovereignty and a Free Trade Organisation within Europe which was all we, the electorate, ever sought or will seek in future, having been denied our democratic right to say so since the word GO! Nor are we NOT little Englanders either (I agree with Liam). I am a proud Scotsman as he is a proud Irishman, and I do not see our ties being anyway affected by this - if anything, they are reinforced, because we both believe in our rights to sovereignty and respect, within our United Kingdom, as perhaps do you, Mr Hovenden for a shortly to be United Holland, if I am correct about your surname! We have always respected, for the most part, the Dutch too, even after you invaded the Medway! (and probably more so, after that brave feat by your esteemed Admiral, who then as now wished only to protect the national interest and his family!)
David A
The Oracle The Oracle
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Re: Invalid referendum

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In reply to this post by PM Hovenden
Twenty eight percent of eligible voters did not bother to use their vote. On the point of the weather in London on Thursday, even if it did prevent some people from voting and it wouldn't have been over a million, London was the area where the remain voters had a majority so it's hardly a valid point either. You cannot possibly assume that any of them would have voted to remain only they know how they would have voted and some would be amongst the millions who wouldn't bother, rain or shine. Scottish voters had their referendum in the full knowledge of the up and coming referendum on remaining in the EU, and Nicola Sturgeon like many other politicians assumed we would vote to remain. Never assume anything.
We were lied to back in 1975 when we voted to join what was described as a Common Market. This time there were lies told on both sides but the remain campaign were the biggest scaremongers. All politicians vastly underestimated how unhappy the electorate are, because no amount of scaremongering managed to convince those who voted leave.
There is never gain without some pain and I am proud of the people that had the courage to stand up for our Country in order to regain control of our affairs.
If you want to blame someone for the outcome, blame David Cameron he used the referendum promise as a vote catcher and it has backfired big time.  
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: Invalid referendum

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Mary S Mary S
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Re: Invalid referendum

The rain didn't stop me voting - torrential rain, hail or snow wouldn't have done either. It is everyone's duty to use their democratic vote and if they fail to do so it is their loss. The Remain campaign has nothing to moan about it was a just and proper referendum and if those that lost don't like the result, that is a poor show. They have turned out to be bad losers, sulky and sour!
What we need to do is join each other and work towards reuniting the country and making a success of our new found freedom and stop sulking and moaning and trying to imply that the result is fixed, incorrect etc..
PM Hovenden PM Hovenden
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Re: Invalid referendum

Rain didn't prevent people voting . cancelled trains and localise floods did.
It isn't about winners and losers. We are all losers as a result of the result of the referendum

Here is a list of some of the knock on effects.,
No continued reciprocal arrangement  for people needing medical treatment which at present has been available in other countries of the European Union. this will cease
No actual steps planned to reduce immigration and increased likelihood is that France will simply send the  refugees in Calais over to England.
Loss of funding from EU for English universities, research programmes regeneration programmes
 People employed from England in other countries of the European Union face losing jobs and having to return home.
No Supreme Court of Appeal available to British people
No subsidies for fishermen and farmers
Just feel the huge responsibility should not have been handed over to us

Yes we all need to work together to sort out this sorry mess.but it is so unnecessary
David A David A
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Re: Invalid referendum

Mr Hovenden, nothing happens until Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is invoked - and then there's a two year wait! In the meantime, Wall Street is already doing the maths! Trump is not averse to the notion of a tripartite pact! Canada, USA and Britain! He is sending a very clear and sensible message to the EU right now - get your act and your currency together or face the consequences, and recognise that Britain has had a gutful of France controlling the common agricultural policy, with their own failing banks having to be propped up by LaGarde and Draghi, while he prints his paper money endlessly and hopes nobody notices! George Orwell and Frederick Forsyth absolutely right with the Animal Farm that the EU has become before our very eyes. I am very proud to be a member now of The Chicken Run, because we recognise Orwell's observation, that all on his Farm are equal, but some (like the French) a damn sight more equal than others and we've conducted our own Great Escape - Hooray!
David A
The Oracle The Oracle
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Re: Invalid referendum

In reply to this post by PM Hovenden
Mr Hovenden, Please tell me why British people are advised to take out insurance,
including medical insurance when they travel to Europe. Even with our E111 cards people from Britain are directed to private doctors and hospitals for treatment and charged for medication. When they are lucky enough to get equivalent to our NHS treatment, which only seems to apply to those living in these countries the costs are claimed back from our NHS. People arrive here and get free treatment on tap whether visitors or immigrants.

There are five countries waiting to join the EU none of which are wealthy countries
so Britain's contribution will go up and up. Countries that already receive billions of pounds from the EU have not spent that money prudently, much of it disappearing, producing no benefits for the countries at all.

France may well try to send refugees to this Country and it will be up to us to deal with that, bearing in mind that under EU rules refugees are supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they reach. France in common with other EU countries does not abide by these rules and actually France disregards any rules that don't suit them.

This country is one of the most densely populated in Europe, It makes absolute sense for us to be able to control the numbers of people coming here. A points system would allow us to select people with the relevant skills required. In my opinon it was on the side of the remain campaign that this logic was turned into a hate campaign. To my knowledge there has been no suggestion that people already living and working in EU countries or Britain would be sent home.

Some young people are complaining that they were deprived of the opportunity to vote. I heard one irreverent youth on National TV this morning saying his grandmother was likely to die in the next couple of years so why should she be allowed to vote!
PM Hovenden PM Hovenden
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Re: Invalid referendum

The internet is overrun by people saying they have made the wrong choice to vote for Brexit. Whatever you may say in defence of the result many people were misled and many people did not understand what they were voting for. Find me something good to come out of this. I see politicians unfit to lead our country, and complete an utter chaos. How can anyone be rejoicing over the results of this catastrophic referendum.
PM Hovenden PM Hovenden
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Re: Invalid referendum

In reply to this post by David A
I am not mr Hovenden, I am Mrs Hovenden and my married name Originated in Kent where you will find many place names ending in enden eg biddenden, rolvenden. Not that I mind where the family originates from.
Unfortunately Europe does see us as xenophobic with just today reports of people from other countries living in our country  receiving obscene letters telling them to go home. The Brexit campaign has ignited this type of hatred. It has also encouraged a selfish attitude where as long as we get what we want out of Europe all the other countries don't matter.
Is this what we want the world to see of us.  Is this attitude what made Britain great. I don't think so.
 
Peter. C Peter. C
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PM Hovenden PM Hovenden
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Re: Invalid referendum

I don't disagree. Cameron has a lot to answer for. Worryingly I don't see a fit person to lead us through this mess. Still think l would love to wake up and find this is all a nasty dream 

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On 27 Jun 2016, at 19:26, Peter. C [via Have Your Say] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Mrs Hovenden

Brexit campaign has not ignited anything to do with xenophobic or racial abuse.

Both exsisted long before we joined the EU and has been there during the past 40 years in EU and is still going to be there......

However, they are minority groups and should be ignored or dealt with in OUR courts not in ECHR we are a big enough country and have dealt with our own affairs for centuries.

Let me remind you it was one PM David Cameron who ignited the situation you have seen unfold.

Was it not Cameron who lite to touch fuse to all this with his promise to hold a referendum in the first place and his reason to do so was to put his backbenchers in their box once and for all who wanted out the EU.
If Cameron did not use the EU referendum to try to unite his party we would still be in the corrupt and undemocratic EU.

So point your finger of blame at David Cameron and not those who wanted to leave the EU.

Brexit campaign only highlighted the truth about Control Control Control
 over immigration with a points system or our courts to make our laws and parliament to be sovereign.
Peter C



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Peter. C Peter. C
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Rookery Rookery
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Re: Invalid referendum

In reply to this post by PM Hovenden
Richard Branson on GMTV demanding a second referendum.    What is the matter with the "Stay" voters.?
What is the point of holding a referendum or election  if you are not prepared to accept the result?   So if we have a second referendum and there is a different result (by much the same majority) I shall expect  a third !
Then what do we have -the best of 3 !!?        Stupidity.

I am horrified by the vitriol the Stay voters are expressing.   In particular we have been told that we should be ashamed.    I am not ashamed of exercising my democratic right to vote as I think is right.      I know we are in for a hard time but I do not wish to be part of a Federal Europe, governed by a few unelected eurocrats in Bruxelles.     Eurocrats like Juncker who said before the vote(in somany words)  "if  you vote out, then get out but if you vote in then shut up and do as we tell you".   People like that I do not wish to deal with.



Peter. C Peter. C
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dave 1 dave 1
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Re: Invalid referendum

In reply to this post by Rookery
I voted to leave the EU.I also voted against joining the EU in 1975,and in 1975 the vote went against us.I excepted it because if you beleave in true Democracy for this Country then you except the majority wins.Our fathers and grandfathers fort in 2 world wars and some gave their lives so that our generations would not have to live under the yolk of a Federal Europe.Just less than half this Country,I believe,is betraying their sacrifice.The way so many of the people that voted to stay are creating is showing to the rest of the WORLD that we do NOT have true Democracy.Its time this Country had true democracy by having preportional representation so that every vote counts and all are represented.Parliament and the media are betraying the people of this Country by agitating and fanning the flames.Get over it and get on with it.
PM Hovenden PM Hovenden
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Re: Invalid referendum

In reply to this post by Peter. C
Yes. Had come to that conclusion. Non the less these are troubling times. What a difference a day makes. Praying for someone  with integrity to lead our country forward through this mess and out the other side. 

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On 28 Jun 2016, at 08:22, Peter. C [via Have Your Say] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Mrs Hovenden

I agree there is not many in UK politics that you can look at and say we have many leaders never mind stronger leadership.

However, we are where we are......the EU referendum has been held and our country men & women have democratically voted to leave the EU......like it or not it's done!!

Whoever rises to the top be it in Tories or Labour they must carry out the will off the people and not rerun the referendum If there is a general election and either party standing on a manifesto that says they will ignore the Brexit vote. This would give the remain voters a chance to overturn the Brexit result because any party that puts this in a manifesto and wins a general election will have a mandate from the people without any need for another EU referendum.
Peter C



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David A David A
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Re: Invalid referendum

In reply to this post by PM Hovenden
I deeply apologise, and I empathise with your comments 100%. Scapegoating is an ugly characteristic of hysteria by some. It's all looking very ugly right now, and the arrogance coming from some of the Brussels elite is breathtaking. The only thing they care about is looking after no 1. They care not a fig, that the suffering is being endured by millions of people on both sides of a crisis. When the second leading contributor to the EU is effectively snubbed and marginalised for two solid years, while the French command the show, ensuring that their reward is just that little bit greater than everyone else's something is bound to crack eventually. I only wish we had recognised this cess pit for what it is, earlier!
David A
anthony sullivan anthony sullivan
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Re: Invalid referendum

In reply to this post by David A
When we gave our colonies independance and an agreed constitution we stipulated that the constitution could only be changed with a two third majority. Why can the uk use the same rules on itself.
While I understand that the UK does not have a written constitution a vote as important as this is akin to a constitutional ammendment and a greater majority is necessary in order to uphold such a vote, especially now with over a million people saying would have voted differently if only they had realised. Couple this with the generational gap and you have real, real problems.
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: Invalid referendum

Anthony Sullivan

The reality of our electoral system is that a simple majority proves to be the winner in all elections ! If the vote in this EU referendum had gone in favour of'Remain' by this process would you then be saying that the result was unrepresentative?

As for the Generational Gap(your words not mine) then you should perhaps question the suitability of those younger voters to actually assess the validity of each side of an argument and then reach a concrete conclusion as to which campaign to support, alas it seems that some 60% of voters aged under 25 did not bother to vote on the day, to me this proves my long held belief that the reasoning powers of young voterers cannot be relied on to reach a firm decision on important matters that could effect the futures of many generations to come, the attitudes and opinions of a 16 year old will be different from those of a twenty year old which in turn will be different to those opinions and attitudes of a twenty five year old voter, it is only after this age that opinions tend to firm in line with life experiences.

We as a people cannot risk all of our futures on the variabilities of the immature intellect of some not all of the younger voters since in many cases this is driven to a large degree by the self interest of childhood.

I suggest you reflect on the viability of your argument, take some time to reassess your current opinions and then in a year or so return to this forum and speak again on this matter.

Regards John Kelly an OAP
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