Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

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Peter. C Peter. C
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Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

Before I air may thought's on this tragic fire that has taken so many life's that could and would have been preventable.........

My heart-felt sympathies go out to all the families who have lost loved ones.

This was a tragedy that was preventable!!!

Grenfell Tower fire: Scotland Yard opens criminal investigation into tragedy.

The cladding panels similar to those likely to have been used on Grenfell Tower have been widely prohibited on American tall buildings since 2012 because of the fire risk they can pose.

It is highly likely a cost analysis based on budget restraints force on to local councils by these Heartless Tory polices where councils have had to cut back on expenditures all down to Tory Austerity may well be the biggest contributory factor as to why cheaper materials were used to refurbish these tower blocks.

Let's hope that Scotland Yards investigations gets to the Real Heart of the possible causes and let's have No more cover-up and if the Tory cut backs on local authority spending is in any way a contributory factor.......... Let the "truth will out".
Peter C
David A David A
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

Rubbish! this tragedy was brought about by the utter incompetence of the licensing authorities. I see Mrs May being pilloried today for not engaging with the survivors, and I think to myself if she did, she might be seen to be doing so for political gain. Instead she chose to weep alone and in private, according to a distressed onlooker. I tried to make the point, that the buck should stop with the Mayor of London, and his woeful response to the tragedy. I was censored for using the words 'Mayor of London', and I ask is this what we are faced with now, a person is somehow exempt from criticism just because Trumps rants were groundless? I said all along I would not have voted for him, because I did not think he was a patch on Boris. I hold that view now more strongly than ever. He should do the decent thing for Londoners now and resign over his utter ineptitude post fire. The man is an absolute disgrace.
David A
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

David

As always you are entitled to your opinion but with the greatest of respect.........

What on earth has Donald Trump rants or whether you may or may not have voted for him to do with this tragedy!!

When you say......

"He should do the decent thing for Londoners now and resign over his utter ineptitude post fire"

I assume you mean the Major of London  Sadiq Khan.

You don't give much detail what you see as his ineptitude post fire!!


You said.....

"I see Mrs May being pilloried today for not engaging with the survivors, and I think to myself if she did, she might be seen to be doing so for political gain."

After Theresa May's performance during and since her Needless GE she has earned herself the nickname Maybot and it suites her to a T she comes over as some  animatronic Robot........ She refused to engage with the public during the GE, she refused to take part in TV debates (like them or not) she should have step up and took on her adversaries, after all Jeremy Corbyn was seen to be cannon fodder.

As for her woeful attempt in fact there was absolutely zero attempt to engage with the people who were most affected by these horrific event. It was utterly Disgraceful and is being seen as George W. Bus's inept and disgraceful display during the New Orleans disaster.

There’s been a lot of talk lately about George W. Bush’s legacy in Iraq,

But Iraq wasn’t the disaster that deep-sixed Dubya’s presidency; Katrina was. Ten years after the hurricane inundated New Orleans, the presidential historian and author of The Great Deluge tallies the cost of an administration’s incompetence.

This tragic fire and Theresa May's emotionless and heartless outreaching to those most affect just may be her Maybot legacy and not her Strong & Stable government and certainly will not be Brexit

As you said about my theory in my original post to be "Rubbish" and that enforced Austerity could not have played a part in seeking the cheapest rather than the safest building materials.

I have learnt that the difference between the material's used and the safer option was a mere £2.00 and a total further cost for the whole building would have been a mere £5,000.00

Such is the local authorities decision making these days that a mere saving off £5,000.00 is what local authorities must decide upon due to sending budget cost's.

And you don't think that my thoughts that Austerity budget cuts could not be a contributory factor..... I say Bollocks off course it has!

This again points out that the poor are put at risk due to Tory Austerity while the Tories force the poor to pay for the BANKSTERS failings, while the tories continue to give their Rich friends handouts and threaten but we must or they will all up and leave.

It's all Bollocks...... If anything this GE has signaled that the country will take no more Austerity and Theresa May just May scupper the Northern Irish peace deal by trying to get the backing from the DUP because any UK government must not be seen to favour one side over the multiple interested groups involved in the North Irish peace deal.......Such is the tories fear they will put at risk such a fragile peace agreement rather than go to the country again for fear they will lose more support.

Theresa May has but months not a year but months and she will be gone either before their annual get together in October or very shortly after....... Mark my word's



Peter C
Mary S Mary S
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

I wonder how Sadiq Khan can be responsible for the tradegy at Grenfell Tower when he wasn't in power when the refurbishment was done. Johnson was a pretty poor Mayor allowing London to be bought up by foreign and other institutions and failing to build social housing let alone allowing cheap refurbishment for existing tower blocks. Johnson is an embarrassment and another appalling disaster is the ridiculous sculpture [if you can call it that] at the Olympic park that is costing fortunes to maintain and is utterly superfluous and frankly ugly. Johnson a good Mayor - I think not! His antics on the zip wire! His abuse of fellow politicians - told an interviewer to 'get stuffed' - so dignified. The man cannot keep a civil tongue in his head - his gaffs are famous - do we need another embarrassing fool as a PM? All I hear about Johnson is that he has a fantastic intellect - I wonder he doesn't use it or maybe he is stupid after all - I favour the latter! He is one of those people that firmly believes that it is his birthright to be PM, he doesn't live and has never lived in the real world.  He has never had to struggle or go without anything and his morals are also suspect - he is not suitable to represent the electorate in anyway shape form and the sooner he falls of his self imposed pedestal the better!
As for Maybot - no compassion, contempt for the community in Notting Hill and useless in every respect. Someone who gains politically for changing her beliefs - from remainer to leaver - political gain?
David, I do have the utmost respect for you, but this time your post is absolutely wrong. I totally agreement with Peter on this point.
The GE election was unnecessary, cost the country a great deal of money. I am pleased we had a GE and to see Labour gain so much. It doesn't seem to have touched May - the heartless inept woman who continues in power an hoping to get into bed with the DUP, and the press lambasting Corbyn for speaking to the IRA - he didn't join them he spoke to them whereas May is actually uniting with a party of violent bigots. Pot and kettle spring to mind - I remember Paisley's rants, full of hatred. The last 7 years have been a disaster for this country - cuts have decimated communities, we have food banks in a country claiming to be the 6th richest in the world - we have underfunded education, a bankcrupt NHS and no public services. The gap between rich and poor is greater than ever. The personal debt in this country is now in a perilous position and what are the government doing - increasing cuts - smaller government hence no investment and more poverty, which means more personal debt. Hoping for inflation to lower the debt - that has been a long time coming. It won't lower personal debt - just increase it. Printing millions and borrowing more - where is that printed money? Hoarded by zombie banks - it is all worthless - we're living on borrowed time and until we have more inward investment in industry and education, health, social care and public services we will suffer another crash - it is already on it's way and you would vote for more of the same?
David A David A
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

I will reply to you briefly. If the cladding was put in under Boris's watch, then I agree he has some explaining to do. Kahn's response to his disaster, and that of the Communities Secretary has been pathetic. No mechanism was in place to respond to this situation immediately, and that has been made absolutely clear by the survivors who had to rely 100% on the goodwill of neighbours. He is still being utterly incompetent in not insisting in the immediate closure of other blocks in London containing the same deadly inflammable material, especially since Dubai has been warning about this self same stuff for two years. Kahn is an inept Mayor of London, and though Trump's criticism of him was equally inept, he is nonetheless correct! Theresa May has had a lot on her plate of late, and she too is trying to do what is best for the country. She's not perfect by any means, but McDonnell is a self-interested opportunist, like John Major, and I regard Theresa May as streets ahead of both of them. Sorry we disagree! The GE was necessary, because she has honour, and prefers in election by the electorate rather than being handed the role with no mandate whatever by the voting public as was the case between Blair and Brown. Corbyn has good ideas but no substance with a vulnerable youth vote falling for his every word. I still think Theresa May will surprise everyone. I sincerely hope so for all our sakes!
David A
Mary S Mary S
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

I wander what Khan could have done with all the residents in the tower blocks. Great idea but strategically very difficult. Move them to mobile homes, hotels or ask other residents to take them in? The local authority has done absolutely nothing at all - the community and people from all over the country have responded brilliantly. I have been trying to think of one good thing Johnson did, as mayor - can't think of one. Didn't get rid of bendy buses. Upped the congestion charge - tried to get money for a garden bridge that would be paid for privately but which has been a complete disaster with the tax payer having to foot the bill. They are just a few examples of his mayorship! May a complete ass of himself too. I will wait to see if Khan makes such a mess and behaves with such a lack of dignity.
May will hopefully go - I cannot agree with you about her - I refer back to my originally comments and the country is now coming to its senses. She is a hypocrit and a political opportunist changing when it is expedient.You say she has a lot on her plate - this situation is of her own making. She is incapable of being PM - she isn't up to the job.  She called an election because she really thought she would get a landslide nothing honourable about her at all. Johnson is cut from the same cloth and if elected leader, will be dispatched quickly by the electorate.
We will never agree about Corbyn - I think it is about time the young stood up and fought back - they have been disregarded for far too long. The future is theirs not ours. They have seen their future destroyed bit by bit by this government - poorly paid work, a gig economy which is exploitative,  no housing, no health care, education leaving them in horrendous debt etc etc.  
Trump can be dismissed without a second thought - he is an opportunistic, greedy, nepotist totally incapable of running a country. Luckily he is a laughing stock in this country and few people take notice of his ridiculous tweets and ill-conceived and ignorant remarks. May thinking she can strike a trade deal is,pie in the sky - he cannot be trusted and I doubt we will ever get a reasonable deal with Trump.
Corbyn has been lambasted and undermined all his political career - he said not a nasty word about anyone during his election campaign in spite of the right wing press desperately trying to write him off - they failed and hopefully will fail again. He is a man with integrity and beliefs, unlike so many of colleagues.  You and I will never agree politically that's for sure, but at least we can remain civil and respectful. Thank you, David, and have a lovely weekend.
David A David A
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

If you saw in my earlier posts - I am not opposed to his ideas. As a leader Corbyn has proved that he is both a good listener and truly inspirational (40,000 votes in Islington, London's cradle of creativity, says it all) and I recommended that Corbyn and Hammond would be the most fruitful combination in the event of a full coalition before the Brussels talks - but it was not to be. I can't abide Davis, and I can't abide Gove either, so I hope she listens to Hammond and takes him with her. I commended Corbyn in his aspiration to provide free University tuition to our young as well, his stance on nuclear power and the environment, and his aspirations towards the NHS. I criticised May prior to her senior moment too, and consistently on her hard Brexit policy. Her conscience (and courage) told her to reverse punitive measures, as it told her to go to the country for a mandate for her actions, which is more than Brown ever did, and she received her reply loud and clear. You say she cannot adjust and listens to no one. I say she can and does. Let's wait and see who is correct, and I will be the first to apologise to you if I'm wrong! Ditto Khan. I agree with you about Donald Trump, he lost any support from me after the Paris Accord and his subsequent blunders, and he was plain daft not to offer an olive branch to the new moderate leader of Iran during his world saving moment in the Middle East. Hardly surprising oil price is dropping now as a result, with Iran being the 2nd biggest world producer, paying scant attention to OPEC ! You too, have a good weekend! I think we both are agreed in our quest to get Britain the best deal possible! Very impressed with HMQ (as ever) today.
David A
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

David & Mary

With respect to your posts on the topic I posted but you both digress from what it was meant to be about........

Here is the title once again........

Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

Let's try to keep on topic..... Please


Peter C
The Oracle The Oracle
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

In reply to this post by Peter. C
Like you Peter, my heart goes out to the families who have lost their entire home and in some cases members of their family as well on top of experiencing one of the most horrific experiences that any one could wish to go through.It would appear that this totally avoidable disaster is the result of criminal negligence somewhere along the line.
I am not a fan of Sadik Khan but I don't see at this point how he can be held responsible and as I recall it was Boris Johnson who closed fire stations in London. Until the actual facts are known we can only voice our suspicions of the actual causes.
In my own opinion. it is not satisfactory for the powers that be to say all current regulations were followed when it has also been mentioned that safety issues with building control and regulations are among the list of "things to do" by Government and current regulations have been questioned for years.
It seems inconceivable that having spent a reported 10million pounds on refurbishment of this block, sprinkler systems and appropriate fire alarms were not in situ. As for the cladding, during one of the original reports I heard said this had been done to compensate the residents for the inconvenience they have experienced with recent building projects in the area including the nearby school which is also clad with the same material. How patronising can you get? Smacks to me of left over materials and what can we do with them.
The ultimate responsibility for this building lies with the Chelsea and Kensington
Council, the richest borough in the Country. I doubt they have that attitude when dealing with the affluent areas. I haven't heard of any of the rich residents offering temporary accommodation to those who are homeless and I've no doubt there are many many empty rooms not too far away!
This tragedy is something you expect to hear happening in third world countries not one of the richest countries in the world.
Mary S Mary S
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

In reply to this post by Peter. C
Hi Peter,
We did go off point.  I think the fire at Grenfell Tower is due to lack of funding and austerity. It is an appalling tradegy. I am duly chastised!
Have a peaceful and happy weekend.
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

Hi Mary

Had a good old chuckle at your comment "I am duly chastised!"

I wouldn't dare dream of chastising you or anyone

Hope hope your weekend is as fun filled as it could possibly be.

As for myself....... I'm heading to the West Coast to Oban and Fort William for a relaxing break.

Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

In reply to this post by David A
Mrs May sanctioned £5m for clothes, food and emergency supplies, as the death toll rose to at least 30.

To Little to Late Mrs May, the fact the the cheaper panels used were only £2.00more expensive than the better fire retardant ones and at a total cost off £5.000.00 for the whole building.

This clearly shows the difficulties forced upon local council's to make decisions based on Enforced Cuts to council's budget's by the Tory Austerity.

So nice gesture from Mrs May AFTER the Event but if it were not for these enforced Tory Austerity cuts the better material's would probably have been used and there may well have been no need for her Gesture after so many life's lost.
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

Hi Peter,
Boris Johnson was not the Mayor of London when the fatal cladding was installed, the fault sits squarely on the local authorities for using a technology known to produce a disastrous inferno from what would normally be considered a containable fire, this technology was already outlawed in the US and had been responsible for the deaths of six residents of a tower block in France before it was installed at Greenville Tower in May 2016.
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity

Hi John,

I hadn't suggested Boris was major of London when this fatal cladding had been installed.

I agree the local authorities for using a technology known to produce a disastrous inferno are and will be the first port of call in the investigation into this fire and will ultimately take the blame for sanctioning the use of this materials.

However, I want and hope the public inquiry goes deeper into "why" and "what" drove these local authorities to use materials known to be inflammable and even Banned in some countries.

One possible reason based on the fact that the safer material's were only £2.00 per unit more and a total overall cost of £5,000.00 for the whole building, surely may involve the multi-millions of pounds cost cutting forced on to local authorities.

This does not reduce the purden of blame on those who should have made sure these buildings were as save as possible to protect human life's.

It has now become clear it's not only this one building in one local authority but is widespread throughout the country.

This would make me look at the Tory government austerity cuts that have been widespread through all authorities.

This is why the Tory party must now put an end to their austerity cuts, sure local authorities must cut out waste as and where possible but there has been huge pressure from the Tory Austerity agenda that to my mind has contributed to risk taking to make cost savings.
Peter C
Mary S Mary S
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Re: Grenfell Tower fire...... The by-product of Tory Austerity


Sadiq Khan took over as Mayor in May 2016 around the time the cladding was installed at Grenfell Tower. It seems unlikely that he was in any way responsible as I suggest the work had been ordered and organised long before he was elected. As for the Johnson - I don't know if the London authority has any influence in local authorities so can't say if he had any part in the decision to put inferior cladding on any of the tower blocks. I still believe that the cuts to LA spending were responsible and it is a disgrace as it will now cost far more to sort out this issue than it would have done if the work had been done correctly in the first place. Unintended consequences - typical of this government, it has always been about short-termism they have never been able to think long term. Their cuts have failed in every respect except of course for the wealthy - they are always OK!
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