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Liam Brennan Liam Brennan
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General Comments

Hello again, “were all in this together (Dave)”, I read with some interest your  speech to Putin and Europe about how much the UK has invented and done to enhance the lives of the rest of the world, and what you said was basically true, so my question after that speech is “Why did we, and still do, allow a bunch of pig farmers in Strasberg,”  to decide what we should do and what we should allow complete strangers, terrorists  and criminals to do to us??” from every imaginable crime, to scrounging benefits and jumping the local authority housing queue. So why are we still in the EU human rights crap?  I see that you lot (Politicians) are still at it, a three pence expenses claim for travelling a hundred yards, and you still can’t believe no one trusts you. We need the EU referendum NOW.  As I for one do not believe that we will ever get one, you will water it down and negotiate and re word everything until it sounds like a good deal, and it will still be the same crap, you and your ilk want, because it enhances or protects you millions, and increases your chances of getting a great job on the EU gravy train, when the voters have seen through you, and realise what a waste of space and oxygen you are, and vote you into obscurity.
 And the real sad truth  is, that your all the same, every last one of you is in parliament to bleed the tax payer dry, ignore the voters request , break your manifesto promises, and get your snout as far in the trough as possible.
You said you were going to withdraw from the UMAN RITES so why haven’t you withdrawn us, our system was better before, so why the need to re write anything, just say kiss my ass were off, and tear up the documents, no one except us takes any notice of any decision anyway, when it doesn’t suit them. The Italians and French bussed hundreds of illegals home when they were fed up with them, with the attitude of, sod uman rites and the rite to a family life, they can still have a family life send the family back as well, then their altogether. Problem solved.
So how come it took ten years and millions of pounds OF OUR MONEY to put one knob head on a plane. Why was some Nigerian business man’s wife allowed to come here to have triplets and sod off without paying the £200,000 bill, more recently a “Nigerian Prince” ha ha, is still wandering around after fraudulently helping hundreds of illegal immigrants get NI numbers and claim all they could. And wait for it, if he is punished, I bet we are breaching his UMAN RITES.
A family of Irish “Travellers” ha ha, who don’t actually travel very far, except here to claim every penny they can, and a great deal they are not entitled to, are offered a council house and all the benefits they can imagine, despite the fact that they own a huge bungalow in Ireland, and the locals say they are not really tinkers (Irish Gypsies), just people with a caravan who come here to become maggots (beggars) and live off the taxpayer.    
Now we are just a few weeks away from the Bulgarians and other Eastern European migrants arriving, and we know what will happen, we can see it happening in France, and the rest of Europe now. And let me guess there will be a great deal of hand wringing by you and everyone else and the whimpering   chipping Norton set will cry that “well we can’t do much about it we have to allow them in to pillage and rape”.  So let’s hope they all go to Chipping Norton to squat, beg, steal and rape.
Another uman rites triumph for our insipid, spineless, worse than useless politicians, who never really intended to do anything anyway. It really is time to stop listening to that hand wringing bleeding heart you’re partnered with, Dave. “That’s the knob head Clegg” although Samantha doesn’t sound overly bright either,   and do what you said you would, or you won’t get back in, and it will be all your own fault. You’re supposed to represent us, the general population, and taxpayers, but you don’t.  
 I see the Syrians are queuing up across the channel now, how long before they get in and strip us bare???????????    
And you lot apparently have no idea how many illegals are claiming or abusing the benefit system!!!!!  And whoever the home office asshole is who said there was too much emphasis on numbers, they should be on the dole by now.  You and Theresa May, have a lot in common, neither of you have any balls. You podgy, pompous, self-important, rich kid, how did you get to be the prime minister, Oh I know, they have all been ball less wankers.  
UKIP for me from now on, let’s see if they keep their promises.
a patriot a patriot
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Re: General Comments

couldn't agree more !!
wonderhorse wonderhorse
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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: General Comments

Would you like to elaborate on your views on UKIP policies?

Perhaps you could make a comparison between UKIP policies and the policies of the other major parties on questions such as The EU, Immigration, Border controls, the Economy, Taxation, Law & Order(Crime & Punishment), Fisheries & Agriculture, Benefits.

Then maybe we might see the logic behind your doubts about the viability of UKIP policies
wonderhorse wonderhorse
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Cutting council tax but maintaining front line services - Ukip hope to achieve it by cutting managers - I wonder how?
Preserving greenbelt by not allowing windfarms - I wonder what their green agenda is?
I agree with cutting HS2
Local referenda are very expensive 
Prisons cost huge amounts of money - also I don't necessarily agree with harsh sentences - punitive sentences are not productive.
Don't agree with grammar schools
Where will the money come from for care of the elderly and also frontline health care for all - surgery, dentistry etc
Nothing about banks and the city paying themselves massive salaries and bonuses.
Nothing about regulation of banking
Nothing about future resources for fuel and power.[fracking for example]
Nothing about raising taxes for the rich
Nothing about tax avoidance
I notice that at the end of the manifesto these ideas will be achieved by various means and as good as it sounds I cannot see how this can be achieved - it looks great in some ways but very idealistic and I don't believe achievable. I am not an accountant or economist but I am sceptical about the ability to achieve their policies.
Also I am undecided about leaving the EU - if this was achievable I suspect it will take years.
I support the Human Rights Act as we are not citizens but subjects and I would like to see a written constitution. 
As much as the manifesto has some good elements and is very accessible I have yet to be persuaded to vote UKIP - I recognise the issues related to the EU and was always a supporter of the European Community for trading purposes and agree that it is now so vast, so out of control and has become a 'gravy train' but I remain undecided at the moment. At heart  I am a socialist, an internationalist and identify with Europe whilst remaining British - very idealistic I know!
I am very pleased to see another political party taking on the three we currently have, it is healthy for the country.


On 10 October 2013 22:07, John Kelly [via Have Your Say] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Would you like to elaborate on your views on UKIP policies?

Perhaps you could make a comparison between UKIP policies and the policies of the other major parties on questions such as The EU, Immigration, Border controls, the Economy, Taxation, Law & Order(Crime & Punishment), Fisheries & Agriculture, Benefits.

Then maybe we might see the logic behind your doubts about the viability of UKIP policies



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John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: General Comments

This post was updated on .
In my view UKIP have little chance of winning a majority in the 2015 general elections, however I do see them making enough progress to oust the Limpdems as the preferred coalition partner for the Conservatives.
UKIP are smart enough to understand that by reducing the number of local authorities from around 400 to just metropolitan and county councils levels they can discard around 290 Local Government CEO's and their admin teams thus saving around £700 million. If they could reduce the overspend in maintening over 40 separate police forces by establishing a single national police force they could reduce the senior management wages bill by around £80 million.

As you say HS2 is generally accepted by everyone except the three major parties as a collosal waste of taxpayers money that is estimated to cost on completion around £80 billion UKIP are totally opposed to this political ego trip.

Local referenda are no more expensive than a local election and are ultimately more democratic.

Green policies are the trade mark of Political rule by deception, Carbon the fashionable word for all that is evil, Co2 the perceived caustive threat to human life and the harbringer of climatic Armageddon, Utter, Utter rubbish, a fraud enacted on the scienticically uninformed population of the world for a scenario that is not within the remit of mankind to cause or halt, Climate Change, a natural cyclical event that fluctuates between glacial periods of severe cooling, these intergalatial periods are highlighted by warming followed by cooling for short periods(several centuries of Optimums and Minimums at a time) during which civilisation prospered or survived in spite of all that nature could throw at them. I doubt the existence of heavy industrialisation or motor cars during the pre-Christian Roman Optimum or from the 7th to the 12th centuries during which the Vikings discovered and settled on and named the large fertile mid Atlantic land mass Greenland until forced out by the mini ice age.

Punitive sentences are a reflection of Justice enacted, if a violent criminal or a murderer is given a long imprisonment then the public is protected from them for a longer period, that after all is the reason why prisons are there in the first place, of course the most dangerous serial murderers, pedophile's and rapist's should be executed to prevent them ever again acting as predators on the weak and vulnerable in our country, and the savings made by not having to keep these animals behind bars would go a long way in rehabilitating those convicted of lesser crime

The financial support of the state pension is imperative because there are currently over 11 million pensioners in the UK, those entering their working life must face the reality that older workers reaching pension age grows before them will grow exponentially over the generations thus putting pressure on the pension system, the only answer is that the young must bear the cost of supporting the elderly while providing a private pension pot themselves. Eventually the state pension scheme must be phased out perhaps over the next 75-100 years.
Short term alleviation of fiscal shortfalls in the pension systems could be addressed by the UK withdrawing from the EU and the Overseas aid program and by our military only defending this nation from proven threats and not being available as a back up for US global policing.

Grammar Schools are one of many avenues for educational excellence that must be allowed, the demise of Grammar Schools largely through the activities of the delinquent socialist educational policies of the Labour party must be held responsible for the UK's appalling position in the league table of the top 24 economies where the UK came 22nd in literacy and 20th in mathematics, Personally I put this down to the introduction of comprehensive schools where a dumbing down of students to the level of the lowest achievers has blighted the lives of two generations of British children who have left school with a dependence on spell checker and electronic calculators because their knowledge of the building blocks of the English language is at best minimal and at worst non existent and basic mental arithmetic brings on a migraine.

Banks, fuel, energy & CEO wages are the province of Governments when they achieve power, thus far no political party has dared to address these matter seriously since most of those in Government are realistically in the pay of these giants of commerce, so how do you expect UKIP to have a policy on these matters when logically they will not form a Government at the next election.

Punitive taxation for the rich is a socialist idea based on stupidity and envy for a share of the wealth of the most talented in industry without having the intelligence and talent themselves. In the past such taxation has reached levels approaching 95% at that rate why bother working hard, employing others and bringing wealth to the country. Ultra high taxation will drive these exceptional money makers away from the UK taking their industries with them. UKIP favour a flats rate of tax for all workers rich and poor that would relegate tax avoidance as an unnecessary exercise even for the super rich who contribute more from their 10 percent of the population than the total tax revenue generated by the remaining 90 percent.
Without the tax paid by the super rich ordinary taxpayers would see the wages taxed at 45-50p in the £.

As for the Human Rights Act this is a perverse piece of UK legislation forced on us by the ECHR. I believe it seeks to protect the rights of those who have broken the statutes of UK (English Law) legislation while penalising the rights of those victimised by the very same offenders, I agree that we need a qualified British Constitution where a British Bill of Rights is properly encoded into English law that protects everybody from the prenatal state to the cadaver and is biased in favour of the victims of crime and against those who break the law.

Your views disclose your socialist leanings and suggest a sense of antipathy towards UKIP and the captains of industry and a dependency upon the failed political theology of the past that threatens to stifle the future of the UK and the natural aspirations of the British people to regain their freedom from the strangle hold of the EU and the remnants of the IG Farben combine that at its third attempt has Europe firmly in its grasp.

wonderhorse wonderhorse
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Liam Brennan Liam Brennan
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RE: General Comments


 

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 07:36:14 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

John K, I read your post with interest.  I felt quite quite chastised by it and it felt as if you have no respect for my right to have an opinion and should not be a socialist. I am a socialist and as it has never really been given a chance in this country I don't agree that it is a failed political theory. We will have to agree to differ - I do have a natural antipathy towards UKIP and the conservative party - they do not represent any of my beliefs. I accept that you have very different views to me and respect your right to hold them.
Capital punishment was removed due to the lack of  convictions. Juries are much less likely to convict anyone if there is a chance that they will be executed.  I remember when it was an option and when it was removed so I would encourage you to look up the research. It was not removed due to any moral imperative.
I have nothing against Grammar schools except the selection process which was extremely unfair.  Are you aware that that girls had to attain a higher mark than boys? This was the 11+ Are you also aware that places in Grammar schools were often given credits on father's profession/ Are you aware that the pass mark varied from one education authority to another depending on the relative proportion of grammar school places? It was considered a waste of resources to educate poor daughters of dustman who were unlikely to go on to be surgeons, solicitors or politicians. It is strange that many middle class children in rural areas only to return to Epsom, Edenbridge or Guildford to attend grammar school - this is personal experience.
You mentioned that punitive taxation will drive the top money makers away - do you not think that there will always be some bright spark ready to jump on the bandwagon?  British business managers are very often appalling and some would not be missed! Especially in the banking sector - another disgrace disgrace exposed last night on Panorama. We should all pay proportionate tax - it makes for a fairer society. Tax avoidance is rife in big business - might not be illegal but definitely immoral. No-one knows when they might need help and it is appropriate that as a civilised society we are able to support our neighbours etc when they need it.
The Human Rights Act was originally drafted by British lawyers and it has been pushed since the 1930's and 1940's and it is written into the UN charter in one form or another - the fact that it can be thwarted by apparent undesirables for their own ends is no reason to dismiss it. It is in situ to prevent horrendous activities such as the holocaust, Eastern European dictatorships and extra judicial imprisonment and execution. It is a very British gift to the world and something for which we should be very proud.
You know nothing of my personal life or financial situation so cannot make a judgement about being envious of the wealthy. I am a very long way from being jealous or envious of anyone - that would hardly fit with my long held socialist beliefs.
I believe that you have to a right to hold whatever beliefs you chose as long as they are not harming anyone. I try not to be disrespectful or intolerant. In this case I agree to differ as I doubt that we will ever see eye to eye.



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Liam Brennan Liam Brennan
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RE: General Comments

In reply to this post by wonderhorse
I'm sorry but my post was titled  " It was suggested that I comment on UKIP policies against those of the major Parties" I have never published anything titled "General  Comment" and I fail to see what your post has to do with mine I never criticized anyone's beliefs, and the only left winger I mentioned was Neil Kinnock. I feel that you may have posted your comments on the wrong item 
 
 

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 07:36:14 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

John K, I read your post with interest.  I felt quite quite chastised by it and it felt as if you have no respect for my right to have an opinion and should not be a socialist. I am a socialist and as it has never really been given a chance in this country I don't agree that it is a failed political theory. We will have to agree to differ - I do have a natural antipathy towards UKIP and the conservative party - they do not represent any of my beliefs. I accept that you have very different views to me and respect your right to hold them.
Capital punishment was removed due to the lack of  convictions. Juries are much less likely to convict anyone if there is a chance that they will be executed.  I remember when it was an option and when it was removed so I would encourage you to look up the research. It was not removed due to any moral imperative.
I have nothing against Grammar schools except the selection process which was extremely unfair.  Are you aware that that girls had to attain a higher mark than boys? This was the 11+ Are you also aware that places in Grammar schools were often given credits on father's profession/ Are you aware that the pass mark varied from one education authority to another depending on the relative proportion of grammar school places? It was considered a waste of resources to educate poor daughters of dustman who were unlikely to go on to be surgeons, solicitors or politicians. It is strange that many middle class children in rural areas only to return to Epsom, Edenbridge or Guildford to attend grammar school - this is personal experience.
You mentioned that punitive taxation will drive the top money makers away - do you not think that there will always be some bright spark ready to jump on the bandwagon?  British business managers are very often appalling and some would not be missed! Especially in the banking sector - another disgrace disgrace exposed last night on Panorama. We should all pay proportionate tax - it makes for a fairer society. Tax avoidance is rife in big business - might not be illegal but definitely immoral. No-one knows when they might need help and it is appropriate that as a civilised society we are able to support our neighbours etc when they need it.
The Human Rights Act was originally drafted by British lawyers and it has been pushed since the 1930's and 1940's and it is written into the UN charter in one form or another - the fact that it can be thwarted by apparent undesirables for their own ends is no reason to dismiss it. It is in situ to prevent horrendous activities such as the holocaust, Eastern European dictatorships and extra judicial imprisonment and execution. It is a very British gift to the world and something for which we should be very proud.
You know nothing of my personal life or financial situation so cannot make a judgement about being envious of the wealthy. I am a very long way from being jealous or envious of anyone - that would hardly fit with my long held socialist beliefs.
I believe that you have to a right to hold whatever beliefs you chose as long as they are not harming anyone. I try not to be disrespectful or intolerant. In this case I agree to differ as I doubt that we will ever see eye to eye.



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wonderhorse wonderhorse
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Liam Brennan Liam Brennan
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RE: General Comments

That's OK no harm done just though you should know that's all
 

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:02:01 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

So sorry if I was wrong - I may have posted a reply inavertantly! I do apologise!


On 15 October 2013 18:54, Liam Brennan [via Have Your Say] <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm sorry but my post was titled  " It was suggested that I comment on UKIP policies against those of the major Parties" I have never published anything titled "General  Comment" and I fail to see what your post has to do with mine I never criticized anyone's beliefs, and the only left winger I mentioned was Neil Kinnock. I feel that you may have posted your comments on the wrong item 
 
 

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 07:36:14 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

John K, I read your post with interest.  I felt quite quite chastised by it and it felt as if you have no respect for my right to have an opinion and should not be a socialist. I am a socialist and as it has never really been given a chance in this country I don't agree that it is a failed political theory. We will have to agree to differ - I do have a natural antipathy towards UKIP and the conservative party - they do not represent any of my beliefs. I accept that you have very different views to me and respect your right to hold them.
Capital punishment was removed due to the lack of  convictions. Juries are much less likely to convict anyone if there is a chance that they will be executed.  I remember when it was an option and when it was removed so I would encourage you to look up the research. It was not removed due to any moral imperative.
I have nothing against Grammar schools except the selection process which was extremely unfair.  Are you aware that that girls had to attain a higher mark than boys? This was the 11+ Are you also aware that places in Grammar schools were often given credits on father's profession/ Are you aware that the pass mark varied from one education authority to another depending on the relative proportion of grammar school places? It was considered a waste of resources to educate poor daughters of dustman who were unlikely to go on to be surgeons, solicitors or politicians. It is strange that many middle class children in rural areas only to return to Epsom, Edenbridge or Guildford to attend grammar school - this is personal experience.
You mentioned that punitive taxation will drive the top money makers away - do you not think that there will always be some bright spark ready to jump on the bandwagon?  British business managers are very often appalling and some would not be missed! Especially in the banking sector - another disgrace disgrace exposed last night on Panorama. We should all pay proportionate tax - it makes for a fairer society. Tax avoidance is rife in big business - might not be illegal but definitely immoral. No-one knows when they might need help and it is appropriate that as a civilised society we are able to support our neighbours etc when they need it.
The Human Rights Act was originally drafted by British lawyers and it has been pushed since the 1930's and 1940's and it is written into the UN charter in one form or another - the fact that it can be thwarted by apparent undesirables for their own ends is no reason to dismiss it. It is in situ to prevent horrendous activities such as the holocaust, Eastern European dictatorships and extra judicial imprisonment and execution. It is a very British gift to the world and something for which we should be very proud.
You know nothing of my personal life or financial situation so cannot make a judgement about being envious of the wealthy. I am a very long way from being jealous or envious of anyone - that would hardly fit with my long held socialist beliefs.
I believe that you have to a right to hold whatever beliefs you chose as long as they are not harming anyone. I try not to be disrespectful or intolerant. In this case I agree to differ as I doubt that we will ever see eye to eye.



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wonderhorse wonderhorse
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Thanks for letting me know - your are right I would prefer to know!


On 15 October 2013 19:15, Liam Brennan [via Have Your Say] <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's OK no harm done just though you should know that's all
 

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:02:01 -0700

From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

So sorry if I was wrong - I may have posted a reply inavertantly! I do apologise!


On 15 October 2013 18:54, Liam Brennan [via Have Your Say] <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm sorry but my post was titled  " It was suggested that I comment on UKIP policies against those of the major Parties" I have never published anything titled "General  Comment" and I fail to see what your post has to do with mine I never criticized anyone's beliefs, and the only left winger I mentioned was Neil Kinnock. I feel that you may have posted your comments on the wrong item 
 
 

Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 07:36:14 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

John K, I read your post with interest.  I felt quite quite chastised by it and it felt as if you have no respect for my right to have an opinion and should not be a socialist. I am a socialist and as it has never really been given a chance in this country I don't agree that it is a failed political theory. We will have to agree to differ - I do have a natural antipathy towards UKIP and the conservative party - they do not represent any of my beliefs. I accept that you have very different views to me and respect your right to hold them.
Capital punishment was removed due to the lack of  convictions. Juries are much less likely to convict anyone if there is a chance that they will be executed.  I remember when it was an option and when it was removed so I would encourage you to look up the research. It was not removed due to any moral imperative.
I have nothing against Grammar schools except the selection process which was extremely unfair.  Are you aware that that girls had to attain a higher mark than boys? This was the 11+ Are you also aware that places in Grammar schools were often given credits on father's profession/ Are you aware that the pass mark varied from one education authority to another depending on the relative proportion of grammar school places? It was considered a waste of resources to educate poor daughters of dustman who were unlikely to go on to be surgeons, solicitors or politicians. It is strange that many middle class children in rural areas only to return to Epsom, Edenbridge or Guildford to attend grammar school - this is personal experience.
You mentioned that punitive taxation will drive the top money makers away - do you not think that there will always be some bright spark ready to jump on the bandwagon?  British business managers are very often appalling and some would not be missed! Especially in the banking sector - another disgrace disgrace exposed last night on Panorama. We should all pay proportionate tax - it makes for a fairer society. Tax avoidance is rife in big business - might not be illegal but definitely immoral. No-one knows when they might need help and it is appropriate that as a civilised society we are able to support our neighbours etc when they need it.
The Human Rights Act was originally drafted by British lawyers and it has been pushed since the 1930's and 1940's and it is written into the UN charter in one form or another - the fact that it can be thwarted by apparent undesirables for their own ends is no reason to dismiss it. It is in situ to prevent horrendous activities such as the holocaust, Eastern European dictatorships and extra judicial imprisonment and execution. It is a very British gift to the world and something for which we should be very proud.
You know nothing of my personal life or financial situation so cannot make a judgement about being envious of the wealthy. I am a very long way from being jealous or envious of anyone - that would hardly fit with my long held socialist beliefs.
I believe that you have to a right to hold whatever beliefs you chose as long as they are not harming anyone. I try not to be disrespectful or intolerant. In this case I agree to differ as I doubt that we will ever see eye to eye.



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Liam Brennan Liam Brennan
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RE: General Comments

In reply to this post by John Kelly
Well John I have published some of my understanding of UKIP policies,  I never said I had any doubts about the policy in general, although as I point out, I do not know everything about what they stand for, but in principle I think I agree with it all. I just said that I can't see them ever being able to from a government, unless more people stop voting for the liars that spew the same junk every election, and give some one else a chance. After all they couldn't do any worse and if they KEEP THEIR PROMISES as opposed to the other parties, then we will all win.
 

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:07:50 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

Would you like to elaborate on your views on UKIP policies?

Perhaps you could make a comparison between UKIP policies and the policies of the other major parties on questions such as The EU, Immigration, Border controls, the Economy, Taxation, Law & Order(Crime & Punishment), Fisheries & Agriculture, Benefits.

Then maybe we might see the logic behind your doubts about the viability of UKIP policies



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http://have-your-say.915577.n3.nabble.com/General-Comments-tp4030384p4030390.html
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NAML
Liam Brennan Liam Brennan
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RE: General Comments

In reply to this post by John Kelly
Also I need to point out that I have never published anything under General Comments, perhaps you have sent a reply to the wrong mail.
 

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:07:50 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: General Comments

Would you like to elaborate on your views on UKIP policies?

Perhaps you could make a comparison between UKIP policies and the policies of the other major parties on questions such as The EU, Immigration, Border controls, the Economy, Taxation, Law & Order(Crime & Punishment), Fisheries & Agriculture, Benefits.

Then maybe we might see the logic behind your doubts about the viability of UKIP policies



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NAML
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: General Comments

In reply to this post by Liam Brennan
Liam

In comment to your original post........ A masterpiece of writing

Peter C
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: General Comments

In reply to this post by wonderhorse
Wonderhorse,

You are right to say.......

"I am a socialist and as it has never really been given a chance in this country i don't agree that it is a failed political theory."

As you rightly say socialism has not been given a chance in this country but what has had it's day in this country is "Capitalism" and it has workout for the few at the expense of the many.

It is clear to me that "Capitalism" has been proven to be a failed political theory!

We heard a lot about a better form of "capitalism" from Tories & Labour but as usual they are only soundbites that appeals to the public in general.

Capitalism is totally incompatible with caring, sharing etc etc, capitalism is all about Greed! Me! Me! Me!
Peter C
John Kelly John Kelly
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Re: General Comments

There is no single form of Government that can be labeled as compatible with caring for the populations under their control,Communism like its socialist alter ego National Socialism ultimately deceives the people into a false belief that the state will take care of everything that effects them be it employment, Food, healthcare, heating and light, pensions, defence etc. In practice however the people in such societies ultimately lose their jobs, have to accept rationing of food, suffer I'll health, suffer power cuts, have to endure late or no pension payments and see most Government spending going on defence.
All the time the political elite of such societies live like Roman Emperor's. There are no rival political alternatives since most of the leaders of such parties will have been eliminated.

Democratic Capitalism despite its many faults actually works, albeit like a car running on kangaroo juice( racing away in times of plenty and stalling badly in times of recession in a never ending cycle). One of its failings is that the politicians in Government are never proven experts in their particular ministerial duties, relying instead on a raft of so called advisors and since a politician may be switched from one department to a completely different one this aptly emphasises the amateur nature of such administrations.

Apart from the above the only alternative's are dictatorship by despots and warlords.
Peter. C Peter. C
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Re: General Comments

The main differences between capitalism & socialism is.......

Capitalism is unconcerned about equity....... basically Greed of the few individuals.
It is argued that inequality is essential to encourage innovation and economic development..... I say Slaves are made out of capitalism were human beings are used as commodities to earn the profits for those at the top.
Just ask what does the greedy business owner chop whenever business runs down..... The workers jobs first to go every time.

And before anyone says it.....  No it is not envy, I don't mind those at the top getting more, however, it is  ridiculous to amount that some can (i was going to say earn but they don't earn it) pick up in salaries and bonuses while others freeze and live a very meager existence.

Socialism is concerned with redistributing resources from the rich to the poor. This is to ensure everyone has both equal opportunities and equal outcomes.....

I am a firm believer that redistribution of resources from rich to poor, simply because the poor should be given a decent standard of living, without the workers there is no wealth for the rich.

It is impossible for equal outcomes or wages.... Simply because someone has to carry more responsibility than others and some have a skill like surgeons etc so there is a need for some people to be paid more.....
However, no matter how skilled you are there is a point where Greed sets in rather than a decent amount for any acquired skill, take football players earns millions per year, totally unacceptable for the set of skills he has compared to surgeons.

Ownership under capitalism.....

Private businesses will be owned by private individuals

Ownership under socialism....

The State will own and control the main means of production......
However, in some models of socialism, ownership would not be by the government but worker cooperatives such as the John Lewis model.

John Lewis model is the best model which works from MD, CEO's right down to cleaners, it sets a differential between MD all the way down to cleaners but then depending on profits made by "all" employees they "all" get the same percentage in wage increases or bonuses.

This to my thinking is "capitalism & socialism" working for the common good not the usual capitalism we have forced on us that creates Greed for the few Fat Cats that value themselves way more than their actual worth or input to any business.
Peter C
wonderhorse wonderhorse
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Re: General Comments

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David A David A
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Re: General Comments

Lone voice you are not, Wonderhorse (deeply touched, by the way, with your earlier communication to me revealing your name - same as my mother's!) - I, like John Kelly, am a Conservative of the old school who believes that compassion should be central to our credo. Sadly it is the one essential ingredient absent in most modern Conservatives.  Yes, we both still believe in free and fair enterprise, but we do not believe in the style or agenda of the greedy corrupt bastards, about whom Liam (with whom I largely concur)  forcefully speaks, and those same smug hypocritical bastards ruling Westminster, who I despise in equal measure! This low life is a disgrace to both my Party, their Parties and Britain.
David A
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